The First Presidency Statement on the Negro Question

[_Daheshist]

"The First Presidency Statement on the Negro Question" it says:

"From the days of the Prophet Joseph Smith even until now, it has been the doctrine of the Church, never questioned by Church leaders, that the Negroes are not entitled to the full blessings of the Gospel."

"The attitude of the Church with reference to Negroes remains as it has always stood. It is not a matter of the declaration of a policy but of direct commandment from the Lord, on which is founded the doctrine of the Church from the days of its organization, to the effect that Negroes may become members of the Church but that they are not entitled to the priesthood at the present time."

"The position of the Church regarding the Negro may be understood when another doctrine of the church is kept in mind, namely, that the conduct of spirits in the pre-mortal existence has some determining effect upon the conditions and circumstances under which these spirits take on mortality, and that while the details of this principle have not been made known, the principle itself indicates that the coming to this earth and taking on mortality is a privilege that is given to those who maintained their first estate; and that the worth of the privilege is so great that spirits are willing to come to earth and take on bodies no matter what the handicap may be as to the kind of bodies they are to secure i.e. a Negro body is a handicap]; and that among the handicaps, failure of the right to enjoy in mortality the blessings of the priesthood is a handicap which spirits are willing to assume in order that they might come to earth. Under this principle there is no injustice whatsoever involved in this deprivation as to the holding of the priesthood by the Negroes..... "Man will be punished for his own sins and not for Adam's transgression. If this is carried further, it would imply that the Negro is punished or allotted to a certain position on this earth, not because of Cain's transgression, but came to earth through the loins of Cain because of his failure to achieve other stature in the spirit world." (Statement of The First Presidency on the Negro Question, July 17 1947, quoted in Mormonism and the Negro, pp.46-7)

You just can't get any more "official" than a statment from the First Presidency! In 1947, a liberal Mormon professor at Utah State University, Dr. Lowry Nelson, wrote to the First Presidency asking if the Curse of Cain Doctrine was a doctrine of the Church, or just some "personal opinion" of Church leaders. The First Presidency wrote him back saying:

"Dear Brother Nelson:

"As you have been advised, your letter of June 16 was received in due course ... We have carefully considered [its] content; and are glad to advise you as follows:

"We make this initial remark: the social side of the Restored Gospel is only an incident of it; it is not the end thereof.

"The basic element of your ideas and concepts seems to be that all God's children stand in equal positions before Him in all things. Your knowledge of the Gospel will indicate to you that this is contrary to the very fundamentals of God's dealings with Israel dating from the time of His promise to Abraham regarding Abraham's seed and their position vis-a-vis God Himself. Indeed, some of God's children were assigned to superior positions before the world was formed.

"We are aware that some Higher Critics do not accept this, but the Church does. Your position seems to lose sight of the revelations of the Lord touching the pre-existence of our spirits, the rebellion in heaven, and the doctrines that our birth into this life and the advantages under which we may be born, have a relationship in the life heretofore.

"From the days of the Prophet Joseph Smith even until now, it is has been the doctrine of the Church, never questioned by any of the Church leaders, that the Negroes are not entitled to the full blessings of the Gospel. "Furthermore, your ideas, as we understand them, appear to contemplate the intermarriage of the Negro and White races, a concept which has heretofore been most repugnant to most normal-minded people from the ancient patriarchs till now. God's rule for Israel, His Chosen People, has been endogamous [meaning 'marriage within a specific tribe or similar social unit']. Modern Israel [the Mormon Church] has been similarly directed.

"We are not unmindful of the fact that there is a growing tendency, particularly among some educators, as it manifests itself in this are, toward the breaking down of race barriers in the matter of intermarriage between whites and blacks, but it does not have the sanction of the Church and is contrary to Church doctrine. "Faithfully yours,

[signed]

George Albert Smith
J. Reuben Clark, Jr.
David O. McKay

The First Presidency

(John J. Stewart and William E. Bennett, Mormonism and the Negro," [Orem, Utah: Community Press, 1960], pp. 46-47; see also, http://www.signaturebookslibrary.org/ne ... ither2.htm and lightplanet.com )

Lowry followed up with another letter to the First Presidency, dated 8 October 1947, in which he expressed his disappointment with the Mormon Church's officially, blatantly racist position. Dr. Lowry wrote: "The attitude of the Church in regard to the Negro makes me very sad. I do not believe God is a racist."

The First Presidency send another letter in reply which said:

"We feel very sure that you are aware of the doctrines of the Church. They are either true or not true. Our testimony is that they are true. Under these circumstances we may not permit ourselves to be too much impressed by the reasonings of men, however well founded they may seem to be. We should like to say this to you in all sincerity, that you are too fine a man to permit yourself to be led off from the principles of the Gospel by worldly learning.

"You have too much of a potentiality for doing good and we therefore prayerfully hope that you can re-orient your thinking and bring it in line with the revealed Word of God." (Stewart and Bennett, "Mormonism and the Negro," p.28)

[_Equality]

Looks like the leader of the church, namely President Newsroom, has been "led off from the principles of the Gospel by worldly learning." What other explanation is there?

[_bcspace]

Looks like the leader of the church, namely President Newsroom, has been "led off from the principles of the Gospel by worldly learning." What other explanation is there?

How have the Newsroom statements changed any doctrine? What statements did they specify are not doctrine?

[_Equality]

Looks like the leader of the church, namely President Newsroom, has been "led off from the principles of the Gospel by worldly learning." What other explanation is there?

How have the Newsroom statements changed any doctrine? What statements did they specify are not doctrine?

If you can't read what was posted in the OP in this thread, compare it to what President Newsroom said in the two statements issued in recent days, and see the differences, you are truly beyond help.

[_RayAgostini]

I have been "locked out" of this board on more than "several occasions", and unable to log in, especially when I've criticised "sacred ex-Mormon dogma". I don't think it's a coincidence, at all. I've never been locked out for being critical of Mormonism. Not ever. Not once. Weird.

In any case, I think some balance is needed here in the case of Darrick Evenson, who claims to be a "Daheshist apologist".

Darrick Evenson, a new Daheshist.

[_Daheshist]

Well, Ray, I don't know what Daheshism has to do with the Negro Question and Randy Bott...perhaps except you are attacking "me" instead of my argument.

"The Dahesh Society of America" is a farce, created by a man named Mario C., a homosexual man whom I "outed" a number of years ago. Here's his story.

Before Dr. Dahesh died, he appointed a Saudi family as the "Trustees" of his books, holy books, and artwork. This Saudi family, who live in the U.S., asked Mario C. to design a museum, because he has a degree in architecture from M.I.T., so they could display Dr. Dahesh's artwork, which included thousands of pieces of Academic art. But, they concluded Mario C. was "insane" so they stopped using him, and decided to "rent" a facility instead of building a museum. This Saudi family finances the Daheshist Publishing Company, headed by Dr. Ghazi Brax. Neither the Trustees nor Dr. Brax, nor most of family members of Mario C., will have anything to do with him. They conclude he is "mad" or "insane". My unprofessional opinion, he is a psychopath. He has stocked me before, and even sent black thugs to either threaten me, or beat me, or worse. He told Sacramento University police I was a White Nazi making terrorist plans on their computers. He told a sergeant there I was threatening him. Mario C is a NUT CASE. Other Daheshists won't have anything to do with him; NOT because he is gay (and now denies it), but because he is a dangerous psychopath. Mario seems to get angry at everybody eventually, and sees "conspiracies" against him everywhere.

Mario C. founded the "Dahesh Society of America" with his gay lover, and I think they have a "Board" of 5 or 6 people. That is "it". Daheshism has not been organized, and neither the Trustees (Saudi family) nor Dr. Brax (President of the Dahesh Society of America) "recognize" the Dahesh Society of America; which included Mario and a few people he has converted over the last 6 years. Daheshism has not been organized, and will not be organized, until a film is made and shown about Dr. Dahesh. Only the Trustees can organize it, because they own the copyrights to all the Daheshist books, by and about Dahesh. The only "Daheshists" that Mario has anything to do with, is the 4 or 5 people he has converted to Dr. Dahesh over the Internet.

But even "if" Mario C was the "head" of all Daheshists in America, that would not negate the FACT that the Church is now LYING about its racist past. The Church needs to stop lying, fess up, and either defend its former doctrine or make a Public Apology for it, and stop blaming "some Members" for it as they are now doing.

I have been "locked out" of this board on more than "several occasions", and unable to log in, especially when I've criticised "sacred ex-Mormon dogma". I don't think it's a coincidence, at all. I've never been locked out for being critical of Mormonism. Not ever. Not once. Weird.

In any case, I think some balance is needed here in the case of Darrick Evenson, who claims to be a "Daheshist apologist".

Darrick Evenson, a new Daheshist.

[_RayAgostini]

"The Dahesh Society of America" is a farce, created by a man named Mario C., a homosexual man whom I "outed" a number of years ago. Here's his story.

He challenged this assertion: Message for Darrick Troy Evenson.

[_Daheshist]

Mario C is NOT the "head" of Dahshists in America or anywhere else! He started the Dahesh Society of America, which included his own lover, and I think now about 5 other people. That's it. It is NOT recognized by 99.99.99 per cent of Daheshists worldwide, including Dr. Ghazi Brax or the Trustees (the Zahid family). Mario got angry at me because I disagreed with him regarding homosexuality. I said I did not believe it was God approved. He got LIVID and went into an absolute RAGE. I asked him, "ARe you gay?" He replied, "That's personal!" Years later, he now says, "No, I'm not gay, but that's none of your business anyway".

He is gay.

But I don't condemn him because he is gay, but because he is a psychopath who stocked me in Sacramento, lied to police, etc.

I received an email from Mounir Morad, on behalf of Dr. Brax, just two weeks ago. But Dr. Brax has no communication whatsoever with Mario C., and neither do the Trustees, and neither does Mario's own family.

In conclusion: Mario C is NOT the "head" of the Daheshists of America. He does NOT deterine who is a Daheshist and who is not. In fact, nobody declares who is a Daheshist or not, until the Supreme Council is elected, and that won't be until 2015 at least.

Now, Ray, I must say: the Church is now saying "We never taught that blacks are cursed". The Church is lying. Simple as that. A True Church does NOT need to lie, and change its history. A True Church should only tell the Truth. Do what is right, and let the consequences follow.

"The Dahesh Society of America" is a farce, created by a man named Mario C., a homosexual man whom I "outed" a number of years ago. Here's his story.

He challenged this assertion: Message for Darrick Troy Evenson.

[_RayAgostini]

Now, Ray, I must say: the Church is now saying "We never taught that blacks are cursed". The Church is lying. Simple as that. A True Church does NOT need to lie, and change its history. A True Church should only tell the Truth. Do what is right, and let the consequences follow.

I'm not seeing, anywhere, where they said "We never taught that blacks are cursed". I'm seeing admonitions to move on from what was erroneously taught in the past as "doctrine", and their reliance on the Book of Mormon as a guide in this, that "all are alike unto God". The foundational scripture of the Church.

They have "moved on", and the Church is now a multiracial body which doesn't discriminate on colour.

[_Equality]

Now, Ray, I must say: the Church is now saying "We never taught that blacks are cursed". The Church is lying. Simple as that. A True Church does NOT need to lie, and change its history. A True Church should only tell the Truth. Do what is right, and let the consequences follow.

I'm not seeing, anywhere, where they said "We never taught that blacks are cursed". I'm seeing admonitions to move on from what was erroneously taught in the past as "doctrine", and their reliance on the Book of Mormon as a guide in this, that "all are alike unto God". The foundational scripture of the Church.

They have "moved on", and the Church is now a multiracial body which doesn't discriminate on colour.

RayA, if that scripture is foundational, and a basis for extending the priesthood to people regardless of race, why is it not also a basis for extending the priesthood to women? From President Newsroom's statement:

The Book of Mormon states, “black and white, bond and free, male and female; … all are alike unto God” (2 Nephi 26:33). This is the Church’s official teaching.