Sic et Non, this time Non.

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_Kishkumen
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Sic et Non, this time Non.

Post by _Kishkumen »

I have long been fascinated by the intersection of Mormonism and politics, probably because I grew up in DC and many of my fellow ward members in the area worked for various government agencies. We had our Bircher-sympathetic LDS friends, and my own family was deeply conservative, albeit unaffiliated.

When I started attending BYU, I began to see that these conservative politics could definitely trend in more unfortunate and disturbing directions. It was at BYU that I first heard accusations of communist sympathies and adultery against Martin Luther King, for instance. I found it odd that decades after the civil rights hero's death, such accusations were the stuff of casual conversation in the halls of BYU. I also saw more clearly the unthinking gender bias that afflicted the community in the editing of the Rodin exhibit among other things.

It is a real treat, therefore, to follow Dr. Peterson's blog, where one is confronted with similar political opinions. Recently, I have been struck by the contrast between Daniel's defense of Ann Romney against the horrors of being identified as a person who has never held a full time job in her life (I don't know for a fact that Ann Romney has not held a full time job in her life, but I hardly find the charge grossly unfair.) and his lampooning of the messianic rhetoric of Obama panegyrics.

Let me be clear here. I find the Obama panegyrics a little difficult to listen to, but then I imagine I would have also found Pliny the Younger's Panegyricus for Trajan difficult to swallow as well. As much as I enjoy *studying* the worship of earthly rulers, I detest the act itself at the same time. I find it undemocratic in spirit, and it is especially troubling in a country that is increasingly losing its grip on what the Republic is all about, if it has not lost it altogether.

In the case of an LDS scholar at BYU ridiculing Obama panegyrics, however, we have yet another case of the stunning blindness human beings have of their own foibles while identifying--and distorting--the errors of others' ways.

Having lived through the financial meltdown of this country, I would say that, whatever one may think of Obama's handling or mishandling of it all, one could say that the sky has not fallen, we are not covered by the mountains, and we can still breathe. If Obama and Co. want to spin that into "leading us out of the darkness and into the light," I may not be enthusiastic about that language, but I can see where one might at least see that as within the realm of arguable, albeit heavy-handed in its poetry.

If, however, I were accustomed to the culture of the African American Christian congregation, I might not find it as uncomfortable. The biblically laden and poetic language of the black sermon is similar to Michelle Obama's description of her husband's leadership. It may also be more acceptable, for those who are accustomed to such sermons, to hear a figure like Michelle Obama use such language. Does it strike me as odd? You bet. But I did not grow up listening to those sermons.

Dr. Peterson implicitly takes Michelle Obama to task for using such language, however, citing scripture and inveighing against likening any human leader to God. One wonders whether the irony of his fulminations is completely lost on him:

1. Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah.
Jesus' anointed, "that Prophet and Seer,"

Blessed to open the last dispensation;
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.
CHORUS
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven,
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain,
Mingling with God's he can plan for his brethren,
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

2. Praise to his mem'ry, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest is his ever great name;
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins,
Stain Illinois, while the earth lauds his fame.
Hail to the Prophet, &c.
3. Great is his glory, and endless his priesthood,
Ever and ever the keys he will hold;
Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.
Hail to the Prophet, &c.

4. Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man!
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice,
Millions shall know "brother Joseph" again.
Hail to the Prophet, &c.

Image
(Notice the presentation of Joseph's palm in a manner reminiscent of the Christus statue.)

My point in all of this is not to say that Mormons are wrong to offer a form of worship to Joseph Smith. My disbelief comes in Dr. Peterson's lack of reflection here. He remains absolutely tone deaf to the context of the panegyrics of Obama, and at the same time he will happily sing "Praise to the Man" next week at sacrament meeting. Sure, one can poke fun at the messianic language applied to a mediocre president of the Unites States, but heaven forbid that one find anything odd about the adoration piled upon Joseph Smith, Jr.

I would think it best to leave such matters well enough alone, if I were Dr. Peterson. If ever there were a case of people in glass houses throwing bricks, this has got to be it. Truly the intersection between religion and politics in this country remains an arresting subject. I can't get enough of the odd and intriguing things one observes in this area.

*Were I able to engage Dr. Peterson at Sic et Non, I would do so, but he does not allow comments.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_zeezrom
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Re: Sic et Non, this time Non.

Post by _zeezrom »

I love Michelle Obama. Can I say that on this thread? You just inspired me to post on Facebook about her, despite all the commentary going on about Mitt's wife these days.
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)

The Holy Sacrament.
_Kishkumen
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Re: Sic et Non, this time Non.

Post by _Kishkumen »

zeezrom wrote:I love Michelle Obama. Can I say that on this thread? You just inspired me to post on Facebook about her, despite all the commentary going on about Mitt's wife these days.


Oh, you mean you are not outraged by her fascist plot to force feed vegetables to the kiddies?
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_sock puppet
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Re: Sic et Non, this time Non.

Post by _sock puppet »

Dear Reverend,

I too think the effusive praise in both situations smells. It is easier to hear it heaped on someone that has long been dead, is in our time just a mythical figure anyway. We are real time witnesses to Obama's foibles, but have to dig and root around in old dusty records to find out about JSJr's (as many of us here at MDB have done). We've been programmed over our lives to accept the JSJr mythology, as written and told by people just repeating a prior teller in a long string, back to the original.

If DCP did not know better about JSJr, but just the Mormon myths fed to him since a young boy, then his chafing at similar praise being heaped on a contemporary, Obama, might not seem so hypocritical. But we know that DCP has looked behind the curtain, knows there is no powerful Oz, just a lot of string pulling back there when it comes to the JSJr mythology. So, for me, DCP's dis-ingenuousness when it comes to complaining about Mrs Obama's praise for the President lies in the fact that DCP knows that the LDS Church does not merely hoist JSJr on a petard, but elevates JSJr beyond what the facts permit.

I'm sure that DCP justifies his own participation in the whitewashing of the facts about JSJr as helping stop-gap erosions of faith that might come for many Mormons if they were to learn the truth about the way JSJr lived and conducted his affairs. Somehow, it is better for them to believe falsehoods about JSJr than to know the actual facts. It is another manifestation of that arrogant and condescending excuse, 'milk before meat', that apologists use to justify their lying for the Lord.

While I can respect DCP's intellect, I find his ethics terribly wanting.
_zeezrom
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Re: Sic et Non, this time Non.

Post by _zeezrom »

I have to say it again. I love Michelle Obama.
Image
Michelle Obama at the National conference on volunteering and service, San Francisco, 2009.
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)

The Holy Sacrament.
_Darth J
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Re: Sic et Non, this time Non.

Post by _Darth J »

Does Michelle Obama own an article of clothing that has sleeves attached?
_sock puppet
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Re: Sic et Non, this time Non.

Post by _sock puppet »

Darth J wrote:Does Michelle Obama own an article of clothing that has sleeves attached?

Yeah. Her Mormon garments.
_Bond James Bond
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Re: Sic et Non, this time Non.

Post by _Bond James Bond »

Darth J wrote:Does Michelle Obama own an article of clothing that has sleeves attached?


Would you if you had arms that cut?
Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded.-charity 3/7/07

MASH quotes
I peeked in the back [of the Bible] Frank, the Devil did it.
I avoid church religiously.
This isn't one of my sermons, I expect you to listen.
_ludwigm
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Re: Sic et Non, this time Non.

Post by _ludwigm »

zeezrom wrote:I have to say it again. I love Michelle Obama.

Image
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: Sic et Non, this time Non.

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

Great post, Reverend. I rather like Dr. Peterson's blog, too. It seemed that he was really withdrawing from online interaction, and then he launched this blog. What nice about it is that he gets kind of "lulled" into a state whereby he thinks it's safer to share his real views. Some of the things he's said have been way more revealing and demonstrative than what he used to say during his far more guarded tenure on the various boards. While the blog at first was pretty low-key, over time it has degenerated into a forum for Dan's usual rotten obsessions. But he seems more like a chicken than ever: unwilling to address criticism anymore, and unwilling to allow comments (even from people who are "following" his blog, evidently).
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
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