Obama Lie #2: If you like your Healthcare plan

[_richardMdBorn]

I planned to review more of Obama's history which was distorted or ignored in the 2008 campaign, but some people think that is old news. So I'll deals with some more recent issues. During the discussion over healthcare change in 2009-10, Obama repeatedly stated that

“Let me be exactly clear about what health care reform means to you,” the president told residents of the Garden State. “First of all, if you’ve got health insurance, you like your doctors, you like your plan, you can keep your doctor, you can keep your plan. Nobody is talking about taking that away from you.”

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2009/07/president-obama-continues-questionable-you-can-keep-your-health-care-promise/
In the rest of the story, the authors, Jake Tapper and Sunlen Miller, poke holes in Obama's statement. But Obama continued to make it. In his September 2009 address to Congress, he stated,

First, if you are among the hundreds of millions of Americans who already have health insurance through your job, Medicare, Medicaid, or the VA, nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have. Let me repeat this: nothing in our plan requires you to change what you have.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/us/politics/10obama.text.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

Now that Obamacare has passed, he doesn't have to worry about his promises. Largely ignored in the discussion about Obama requiring Catholic institutions to provide coverage for contraception is its violation of his repeated promise that "if you like your plan, you can keep your plan." if you're a Catholic who like a plan not covering birth control, Obama will NOT allow you to keep it. This was just another Obama lie.

[_Kevin Graham]

What Obama said is 100% true



http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... -under-re/

You're conflating two different things in order to find a reason to call him a liar, which I always thought was beneath you. I'll see if you can figure out what those two things are:

Seeking to jump-start efforts to pass a health care bill, President Barack Obama defended his reform plan in a speech to a joint session of Congress.

He sought to reassure Americans they would not lose their current coverage.

"First, if you are among the hundreds of millions of Americans who already have health insurance through your job, or Medicare, or Medicaid, or the VA, nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have," Obama said. "Let me repeat this: Nothing in our plan requires you to change what you have."

Obama is correct that the plans under consideration do not force those who currently have insurance to change plans. The proposals seek to build on the current system, where many Americans get coverage through work.

The plans do, however, implement new consumer protections and introduce new ways of regulating health insurance companies.

These new rules will surely change the current health care system. The bill in the House of Representatives gives employer-provided insurance five years to come into compliance with new rules, such as caps on out-of-pocket expenses and coverage for preventive care.

Right now, employers have the freedom to change or drop coverage, and they will continue to have that freedom under health reform. Doctors, too, can opt in or out of accepting various insurance plans, including Medicare. Because of this inherent instability to the health care system, and because of the new regulations, we rated one of Obama's earlier statements on the effects of reform — "If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan" — Half True .

Given what we know about reform, it seems likely that at least some people will have employers who decide to change plans when insurers alter their offerings under the new regulations. This would be most likely for any small businesses that currently offer health insurance. They will be allowed to use a national exchange where insurers compete to offer insurance, and prices are expected to be lower.

Obama's statement from the speech is more carefully phrased than his earlier statement. In his speech, he said that if you are "already have health insurance through your job, Medicare, Medicaid, or the VA, nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have." That is true, there is nothing in the plan that proactively forces these kinds of changes, and the bills clearly intend to leave much of the current health care system in place. We rate Obama's statement True.

What you whine about is stuff that is already in place. The article you linked talked about how employers could decide to go with a different plan if they so choose, but that's essentially their prerogative in the current system. Obama's point is to counter the Right Wing hysteria about government "forcing" you to change plans. If your plan changes, it will be due to decisions based on the market, same as they are now.

And yes, Catholic Health Care institutions should provide free contraception, the same as they were required to provide the "day after pill" under Romney's plan in Massachusetts.

[_krose]

if you're a Catholic who like a plan not covering birth control, Obama will NOT allow you to keep it.

What, what? If you are a Catholic who believes it's a sin to use birth control (what is that, about 2% of US Catholics?), yet the government says your plan has to cover it, do you think that means you will be forced to use birth control?

I have health insurance (luckily, knock on wood) that covers thousands of procedures that I hope to never use, including plenty that I can't use simply because I don't have the proper plumbing. Big deal.

This was a tempest in a teapot if there ever was one, with almost as much manufactured outrage as last week's merde-storm over a badly worded remark by a CNN analyst. Hordes of right wingers getting their panties in an orchestrated, self-inflicted twist over nothing is a ridiculous sight.

[_Bond James Bond]

Let's go with Romney's plan then which is to flip the bird at everyone who is sick, elderly, and/or poor and only fund the military.

[_richardMdBorn]

What Obama said is 100% true



http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... -under-re/

You're conflating two different things in order to find a reason to call him a liar, which I always thought was beneath you. I'll see if you can figure out what those two things are:

Seeking to jump-start efforts to pass a health care bill, President Barack Obama defended his reform plan in a speech to a joint session of Congress.

He sought to reassure Americans they would not lose their current coverage.

"First, if you are among the hundreds of millions of Americans who already have health insurance through your job, or Medicare, or Medicaid, or the VA, nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have," Obama said. "Let me repeat this: Nothing in our plan requires you to change what you have."

Obama is correct that the plans under consideration do not force those who currently have insurance to change plans. The proposals seek to build on the current system, where many Americans get coverage through work.

The plans do, however, implement new consumer protections and introduce new ways of regulating health insurance companies.

These new rules will surely change the current health care system. The bill in the House of Representatives gives employer-provided insurance five years to come into compliance with new rules, such as caps on out-of-pocket expenses and coverage for preventive care.

Right now, employers have the freedom to change or drop coverage, and they will continue to have that freedom under health reform. Doctors, too, can opt in or out of accepting various insurance plans, including Medicare. Because of this inherent instability to the health care system, and because of the new regulations, we rated one of Obama's earlier statements on the effects of reform — "If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan" — Half True .

Given what we know about reform, it seems likely that at least some people will have employers who decide to change plans when insurers alter their offerings under the new regulations. This would be most likely for any small businesses that currently offer health insurance. They will be allowed to use a national exchange where insurers compete to offer insurance, and prices are expected to be lower.

Obama's statement from the speech is more carefully phrased than his earlier statement. In his speech, he said that if you are "already have health insurance through your job, Medicare, Medicaid, or the VA, nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have." That is true, there is nothing in the plan that proactively forces these kinds of changes, and the bills clearly intend to leave much of the current health care system in place. We rate Obama's statement True.

Kevin, your argument is bogus. Everyone knows that employers can change plans. That's not the issue. Can the government under Obamacare force employers to change healthcare plans. The answer is yes. They are doing it now. The comment in your quote that I put in bold is wrong. I'm comparing what was passed in 3/2010 with Obama's repeated promises over the summer of 2009. Obamacare violates the promises he made then.

[_richardMdBorn]

if you're a Catholic who like a plan not covering birth control, Obama will NOT allow you to keep it.

What, what? If you are a Catholic who believes it's a sin to use birth control (what is that, about 2% of US Catholics?), yet the government says your plan has to cover it, do you think that means you will be forced to use birth control?

I have health insurance (luckily, knock on wood) that covers thousands of procedures that I hope to never use, including plenty that I can't use simply because I don't have the proper plumbing. Big deal.

This was a tempest in a teapot if there ever was one, with almost as much manufactured outrage as last week's merde-storm over a badly worded remark by a CNN analyst. Hordes of right wingers getting their panties in an orchestrated, self-inflicted twist over nothing is a ridiculous sight.

What you're asserting is that the First Amendment does not protect the right of Catholic institutions to abide by their principles. All hail the imperial state. It will never come around and force YOU to violate your beliefs.

[_krose]

What you're asserting is that the First Amendment does not protect the right of Catholic institutions to abide by their principles. All hail the imperial state. It will never come around and force YOU to violate your beliefs.

Horse manure. Catholics are free to have as much unprotected sex as they wish (or the Pope tells them to have), free of any government oversight. No one is forcing Catholics to use birth control.

On the contrary, it's the Catholic institutions that want to force their principles on their non-Catholic employees and students by not allowing them the coverage they want.

[_emilysmith]

Either way, the entire system is a failure. Nothing highlights the fact more than when you have to go to the hospital in another civilized country where healthcare for the average problem is hassle and cost free. In education and in healthcare, the US spends more for less services.

Whether Obama had good intentions and changed his mind later or whether he was an outright liar from the get-go, the result is the same. Corruption is the heart of the problem.

If you want a list of Obama lies start with his promise to

close Guantanamo
increase transparency in government
end the war in Iraq and Afghanistan (yielding a Nobel Peace Prize in the process)
not enforce federal marijuana laws in states where they have voted it is legal for medical use

Every election in the US is rigged. Always has been, and, unless people do something about it, always will be.

Corporations with large pools of money are the ones who determine what is legislated and what is not. Laws are not decided by the populace.

We still have troops in Iraq, though it is largely a privatized army. We have less rights than after the Patriot Act was passed. (Remember, you are unpatriotic if you don't support losing your constitutional rights.)

The answer to all of these problems is transparency in government to prevent corruption. Everything else will fall into place when we have the ability to review what has happened and make measures to prevent against it in the future. At this point, there are a lot of organizations that are working everyday to make sure you don't learn the truth about anything.

[_Brackite]

I wouldn't worry to much about Obamacare now, since the Supreme Court is likely going to rule it Unconstitutional.

Justices poised to strike down entire healthcare law:
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/mar/28 ... w-20120328

[_krose]

I wouldn't worry to much about Obamacare now, since the Supreme Court is likely going to rule it Unconstitutional.

I almost hope they do. Nothing is going to rile up the electorate against the far right quite as effectively as seeing large numbers of people suddenly kicked off the roles of the insured, especially the millions of newly motivated voters under age 26.

We will see a lot of stories of actual suffering people who had their insurance cut off because of the court's action.

I have said for a long time that the only way we will get universal coverage in the USA is if it's put in place by Republicans, because they will fight any improvement that's not their idea. That's why I thought this ugly compromise might go through, since it was cooked up by the Heritage Foundation as the Republican answer to Hilary Clinton's plan. But the fact that Obama backed it was enough to turn something that their own side created into rampant evil socialism.

They are petty children, really. What else can you call it when a Republican governor loses a primary election mainly for hugging the president once?

(By the way, the picture on that link of so-called "Christians" praying for fellow Americans to lose or be denied health insurance is very disturbing.)