John Dehlin: Initial Criticisms and Impressions Part I

[_Droopy]

John Dehlin is not an apostate. He is not a "wolf in sheep's clothing" leading the spiritually weak and vacillating away from the Church with sweet and flattering words. He's in no manner an "enemy" of the Church.

This is a central part of the emerging narrative of the defenders and supporters of John Dehlin regarding his motives, beliefs, and the personal philosophy that underlies his Mormonstories project and its philosophical, or perhaps, more succinctly, ideological core. Is it accurate? Is Dehlin really, in some sense, a friend of the Church and its members? Is he a kind of contemporary therapeutic guide and counselor, simply seeking what is best for the Church's members as they move through various phases of their lives and levels of commitment to the gospel?

The answer to this question can be found, not only in what Dehlin himself has said, here and there, but in the Mormonstories website itself, which is centered unambiguously around a central hub of issues and concerns, each of which intersects the gospel of Jesus Christ and has emerged as fault lines of tension between the Church and the secular world within which it is embedded.

What I want to do here is just provide a broad, but salient and representative overview of the general philosophy and intellectual tendencies of the Mormonstories website, drawn from the numerous essays, reports, and personal testimonials present at his site.

What will emerge from this is, as we will se, is a clear and broad based bias toward:

1. Exit from the Church as the answer to crisis of faith or personal behavioral/psychological attributes found to be incompatible with church membership and standards.

2. Support for remaining within the Church, but only as a "cultural" Mormon with attachment to certain internal values and cultural elements of LDS society, but without faith or acceptance in its core religious truth claims.

3. Strong support for and defense of various ideological, political, and philosophical claims within the surrounding secular world that are incompatible with those truth claims, and with the body of the teachings and standards of the Church.

[_sock puppet]

Droopy, it is obvious you demonize by labeling something as 'secular'. Secular is focused on the temporal. It is the practical, the real. Such are certainly an anathema to religion. You seem to be quite troubled that Dehlin adds a dose of reality to the Mormon experience. 'Secular' might be the bogeyman in sacrament meeting, but we're not in sacrament meeting here at MDB. You likely do not get the traction by describing here something as 'secular' as you would inside the Cult Bubble.

[_sansfoy]

Droopy, you find that your brother is doubting his once strong faith due to disconcerting things he has discovered on the internet. What do you tell him?

[_LDSToronto]

Droopy, a guy named Greg Smith already wrote this paper. You are a day late and a dollar short.

Not to mention the brain cells that are missing...

H.

[_Jason Bourne]

Droopy

Please list the last five MS podcasts you have listened to. Also please tell us about on MS Conference you have attended. Last of all please outline the objections you have from any one of Dehlin's personal talks over the past year.

If you can not to do the above why do we, or anyone really, care what you say about this? You cannot make the analysis you want to make from simply reading the MS web page.

[_Drifting]

Droopy, why do you ignore the counsel of your Prophet's Seers and Revelators?

Uchdorf has told you to 'Stop it!'

[_Droopy]

As usual, I notice that not one,single response to the OP had the slightest thing to do with any specific point, observation, or argument I made in that OP. Sockpuppet came the closest, the even there, all he was really doing was passing more anti-Mormon gas.

As far as Jason is concerned, yes, John Dehlin's website - the one entirely dedicated to his beliefs and project of providing a therapeutic/support group type setting for cultural Mormons and those on their way out of the Church - is an excellent place to learn about and come to terms with his overall philosophy.

Where else would you propose one go to take stock of Dehlin's motives and underlying philosophy?

[_Cylon]

As usual, I notice that not one,single response to the OP had the slightest thing to do with any specific point, observation, or argument I made in that OP. Sockpuppet came the closest, the even there, all he was really doing was passing more anti-Mormon gas.

As far as Jason is concerned, yes, John Dehlin's website - the one entirely dedicated to his beliefs and project of providing a therapeutic/support group type setting for cultural Mormons and those on their way out of the Church - is an excellent place to learn about and come to terms with his overall philosophy.

Where else would you propose one go to take stock of Dehlin's motives and underlying philosophy?

A website dedicated to open discussion and validating diverse individuals is a terrible place to come to terms with the founder's overall philosophy. If you're just talking about what Dehlin himself has actually said, that's fair game, although in his role of interviewer he has said all sorts of things that don't actually represent his personal positions, because that's what an interviewer does. But anyone who has any sort of experience with the internet knows that things take on a life of their own once you put them out there. You can try to steer them in certain directions, but any supposed insight you get on the founder is more than likely to have actually originated from someone else.

If you want to take stock of Dehlin's motives and philosophy, just go with what he's said about them. It's not like he's been shy about announcing where he's coming from. His motives have changed significantly between when he started the project and now, and they will probably change again.

[_sansfoy]

As usual, I notice that not one,single response to the OP had the slightest thing to do with any specific point, observation, or argument I made in that OP. Sockpuppet came the closest, the even there, all he was really doing was passing more anti-Mormon gas.

One problem is that your "specific point, observation, or argument" is not lucid. The writing is flabby and the sentence structure convoluted. This makes your argument difficult to engage. But I'll make an attempt to translate your three statements. Please correct me where I am wrong.

What I want to do here is just provide a broad, but salient and representative overview of the general philosophy and intellectual tendencies of the Mormonstories website, drawn from the numerous essays, reports, and personal testimonials present at his site.

sansfoy: This paragraph should be cut. It is unfixable and unnecessary.

The Mormonstories website follows this general pattern. What will emerge from this is, as we will se, is a clear and broad based bias toward:

sansfoy's translation: This is the pattern of the stories posted to the site:

1. Exit from the Church as the answer to crisis of faith or personal behavioral/psychological attributes found to be incompatible with church membership and standards.

sansfoy's translation: When members suffer a crisis of faith, they are encouraged not to leave the church. (I think. The writing is so flowery here I had to read this sentence several times.)

2. Support for remaining within the Church, but only as a "cultural" Mormon with attachment to certain internal values and cultural elements of LDS society, but without faith or acceptance in its core religious truth claims.

sansfoy's translation: However, Mormonstories supports nominal membership only, encouraging cultural affinity, but denying the truth claims of the church. (That one was closer to English and easier to translate.)

3. Strong support for and defense of various ideological, political, and philosophical claims within the surrounding secular world that are incompatible with those truth claims, and with the body of the teachings and standards of the Church.

sansfoy's translation: Mormonstories encourages a skeptical approach to the truth claims of the gospel that is incompatible with the church's core theology and standards.

Am I right in my translations?

If so, then yes, I agree with your three statements. That seems to be what Mormonstories is about. Boiled to its essence: stay Mormon but throw out anything you don't like.

[_Madison54]

Droopy,
Your posts are SO long that very few will read them. Why not break them down into short, concise points that may encourage discussion?

Also....breaking your whole Dehlin discussion into part I, part II, and part III? Really?

Is your goal to discourage people on here from reading what you post?

I'm not on here that much, but your style is at least a source of entertainment for me (especially your many exits and re-entrances).