Book of Mormon plagiarism and MAD thread banning

[_robuchan]

I was thread banned here.

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/587 ... ge__st__60

I was going to post this in the MAD thread, but this post is the result of a lot of analysis and so forgive me if I think it deserves its own thread. I'd like to hear comments on my theory regarding the Paul's thorn plagiarism I refer to at the end of this post.

I ruffled some feathers by saying that Kevin Christensen was being deceptive referencing Nibley referencing the logic that Moroni and Paul had the same ancient source for faith, hope, and charity. When in actuality the source is questionable and it's from the Classical Greek period, not anything old enough Moroni would have had access to through the Brass Plates.

Since I can't defend myself there, I'll do it here.

This was one of the original issues that got me thinking as a TBM about 10 years ago. I researched it and even had an email exchange with Brant Gardner who I found had made a blog post somewhere on this--same stuff about a common ancient source. I was satisfied with the answer.

A few years ago (after losing my testimony at this point) I brought this up on MAD and Kevin Christensen (who, although he annoys me to no end by making long posts that say absolutely nothing, I believe is a super nice guy) made this same claim. In the thread, another apologist with better information stepped up and corrected KC by explaining Nibley's "source" was not that solid and it's a dead end in Greece, hundreds of years after Nephi left Jerusalem.

KC knows this logic and he continues to use the argument. I called him on it, and he pleaded ignorance. They thread banned me when someone else jumped in to repeat the theory and I repeated my CFR.

I don't know why this issue is not a bigger deal for people. Almost everything Moroni says is ripped off from Paul.

--faith, hope, charity
--Ether 12 first part compare to Hebrews 11
--gifts of the spirit

But the kicker is not just the ripping off of his doctrine, but ripping off an actual event Ether 12 and 2 Cor 12.

Paul and Moroni both have a weakness. They both pray to God. They both are given "No" answers. They both are given the answer "grace is sufficient". This phrase is so unique that it occurs exactly once in the KJV and once in the Book of Mormon. The passage also includes the proximity of the words strength and weakness. A proximity search of multiple variations of these words is found in 9 chapters in KJV and 7 in Book of Mormon. The word fool is also somewhat rare, but is found in both passages. It's found in 28 chapters in the KJV (excluding Proverbs and Ecclesiastes where the word is pretty common) and 6 in the Book of Mormon.

Doctrine can have common sources. But actual, literal events should not.

[_Cicero]

I'm surprised that they haven't permanently banned you yet.

[_robuchan]

I'm surprised that they haven't permanently banned you yet.

I hope they don't. I like it there. I feel more comfortable around TBM's than apostates, and I like discussing these issues. But they keep thread banning me for innocuous, inconsistent stuff, so I'm sure it's inevitable.

[_Chap]

I'm surprised that they haven't permanently banned you yet.

I hope they don't. I like it there. I feel more comfortable around TBM's than apostates, and I like discussing these issues. But they keep thread banning me for innocuous, inconsistent stuff, so I'm sure it's inevitable.

If you want to reduce the chances of being banned, I suggest that instead of posting sentences like this:

It surely is fake that there is a documented source that Moroni would have had access to. That's what both Nibley and Kevin Christensen were implying.

Say things this way:

There does not seem to be any firm basis for arguing that there is a documented source that Moroni would have had access to. But that is what both Nibley and Kevin Christensen were implying.

The first way suggests that a revered LDS scholar, and a current poster on the MADboard are 'faking' stuff, which implies deliberate falsehood. Say that, and you are bound to get banned - surely you know that? The second way is much harder to find fault with.

Just be more diplomatic in future, and you will last longer. Of course if you still end up making the mopologists look ridiculous, you will receive provocation from the usual suspects aimed at getting you to say stuff that will get you banned. So just get into the habit of leaving the computer for an hour or so if that seems to be happening.

[_Bob Loblaw]

I hope they don't. I like it there. I feel more comfortable around TBM's than apostates, and I like discussing these issues. But they keep thread banning me for innocuous, inconsistent stuff, so I'm sure it's inevitable.

Yes, we apostates do give people the heebie-jeebies. Banning people for little things is pretty much standard operating procedure over there. We're nicer over here.

[_Craig Paxton]

I'm surprised that they haven't permanently banned you yet.

I hope they don't. I like it there. I feel more comfortable around TBM's than apostates, and I like discussing these issues. But they keep thread banning me for innocuous, inconsistent stuff, so I'm sure it's inevitable.

Well be forewarned....it begins with thread banning...and then permanant banning...at least that's what happened to me...

[_consiglieri]

I feel more comfortable around TBM's than apostates,

I am beginning to think that true Mormons have always been apostates.

[_MrStakhanovite]

I hope they don't. I like it there. I feel more comfortable around TBM's than apostates, and I like discussing these issues. But they keep thread banning me for innocuous, inconsistent stuff, so I'm sure it's inevitable.

Tread lightly. Posting here isn’t going to get them to pay attention to you, it will just give them an excuse to do whatever they want with you. Good luck with that group.