A Nation of Thieves

The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related, such as sports or politics. Rated PG through PG-13.
_Droopy
_Emeritus
Posts: 9826
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 4:06 pm

A Nation of Thieves

Post by _Droopy »

A Nation of Thieves
Walter E. Williams

Edgar K. Browning, professor of economics at Texas A&M University, has a new book aptly titled "Stealing from Each Other." Its subtitle, "How the Welfare State Robs Americans of Money and Spirit," goes to the heart of what the book is about. The rise of equalitarian ideology has driven Americans to steal from one another. Browning explains that certain kinds of equality have been a cherished value in America. Equality under the law and, within reason, equality of opportunity is consistent with a free society. Equality of results is an anathema to a free society and within it lie the seeds of tyranny.

Browning entertains a discussion about when inequalities are just or unjust. For example, college graduates earn income higher than high-school dropouts. Some people prefer to work many hours and earn more than others who prefer to work fewer. Students who spend 25 or more hours a week on classroom preparation earn higher grades than students who spend five hours. Most would agree that these inequalities are just. There are other sources of inequalities that are unjust, such as: when incomes result from fraud, corruption, stealing, exploitation, oppression and the like. Such sources of inequality play an insignificant role in producing income inequality in America. Most economists agree that income is closely related to productivity.

Much of the justification for the welfare state is to reduce income inequality by making income transfers to the poor. Browning provides some statistics that might help us to evaluate the sincerity and truthfulness of this claim. In 2005, total federal, state and local government expenditures on 85 welfare programs were $620 billion. That's larger than national defense ($495 billion) or public education ($472 billion). The 2005 official poverty count was 37 million persons. That means welfare expenditures per poor person were $16,750, or $67,000 for a poor family of four.

Those figures understate poverty expenditures because poor people are recipients of non-welfare programs such as Social Security, Medicare, private charity and uncompensated medical care. The question that naturally arises is if we're spending enough to lift everyone out of poverty, why is there still poverty? The obvious answer is poor people are not receiving all the money being spent in their name. Non-poor people are getting the bulk of it.

Browning's concluding chapter tells us what the welfare state costs us. He acknowledges the non-economic costs such as infringements on liberty and strains on the political process, but focuses on the quantitative economic costs. The disincentive effects of Social Security have reduced the GDP by 10 percent, the federal income tax (as opposed to a proportional tax) by 9 percent and past deficits by 3.5 percent for a total of 22.5 percent. He guesses that welfare programs have reduced GDP by 2.5 percent. The overall effect of redistributionist policies has created incentives that have reduced GDP by a total of 25 percent. Without those, our GDP would be close to $18 trillion instead of $14 trillion.

So what's Browning's solution? First, he reminds us of the biblical admonition "Thou shalt not steal." Government income redistribution programs produce the same result as theft. In fact, that's what a thief does; he redistributes income. The difference between government and thievery is mostly a matter of legality. Browning's solution is captured in the title of his last chapter, "Just Say No," where he proposes, "The federal government shall not adopt any policies that transfer income (resources) from some Americans to other Americans." He agrees with James Madison, the father of our Constitution, who said, "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."

For years I've used Professor Browning's and his colleague Mark A. Zupan's excellent textbook "Microeconomics: Price Theory and Applications" in my intermediate microeconomics class. "Stealing from Each Other" is a continuation of his academic excellence.


http://townhall.com/columnists/walterew ... page/full/
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_EAllusion
_Emeritus
Posts: 18519
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:39 pm

Re: A Nation of Thieves

Post by _EAllusion »

Droopy wrote:Browning's solution is captured in the title of his last chapter, "Just Say No," where he proposes, "The federal government shall not adopt any policies that transfer income (resources) from some Americans to other Americans."


That includes literally all government activity. If you think that, that can be debated, but you clearly aren't an anarcho-capitalist. If you aren't an anarchist, why are you posting articles implicitly defending anarchy? You can't advocate doubling defense spending and at the same time argue against all policy that involves wealth transfer of one set of Americans to another. You can't advocate defense spending at all, actually, but wanting it to increase by a trillion so dollars year is particularly ludicrous.
_beastie
_Emeritus
Posts: 14216
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:26 am

Re: A Nation of Thieves

Post by _beastie »

Droopy,

Did you ever return the money you once stole from the rest of us? Better include interest, too.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_Gadianton
_Emeritus
Posts: 9947
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:12 am

Re: A Nation of Thieves

Post by _Gadianton »

Browning entertains a discussion about when inequalities are just or unjust. For example, college graduates earn income higher than high-school dropouts.


This is deceiving. My boss is a high-school dropout and earns a whole lot more than the typical economics Phd, and in an industry that would be considered prestigious. It's true that education can lead to more money, and often does for legitimate reasons. But education is also tied to social class, and a whole system that often involves collusion with government, business, and personal friendship networks to ensure the success of upper-middle class people, often, at the expense of lower class people with equal intelligence and motivation. The problem I have with Sowell and other legitimate economists who promote right-wing doctrine isn't a misunderstanding of market philosophy, as in the case of Droopy and BCSpace, but the gross tendency to apply it only to their opposition, while ignoring or glossing over just how badly market inefficiency is embedded into the right-wing way of life.

For years I've used Professor Browning's and his colleague Mark A. Zupan's excellent textbook "Microeconomics: Price Theory and Applications" in my intermediate microeconomics class.


Just for the record, I looked up this text on Amazon. Lol. It's pretty easy reading. My intermediate micro class was the most difficult course I took in college, and that factors in advanced undergrad math and science classes. Nicholson's text is the standard, and orders of magnitude beyond this text in rigor. But as the reviews imply, this text should be great for business majors who just need the paper and aren't planning on doing research. And fantastic for Christians and tea-party right-wingers who just want to claim some affiliation, no matter how watered down, with a difficult subject that ties into their warped political and religious ideas.
_beastie
_Emeritus
Posts: 14216
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:26 am

Re: A Nation of Thieves

Post by _beastie »

beastie wrote:Droopy,

Did you ever return the money you once stole from the rest of us? Better include interest, too.


Bumping so Droopy can answer the question.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_Everybody Wang Chung
_Emeritus
Posts: 4056
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:53 am

Re: A Nation of Thieves

Post by _Everybody Wang Chung »

beastie wrote:
beastie wrote:Droopy,

Did you ever return the money you once stole from the rest of us? Better include interest, too.


MCB,

Wait...Did Droopy steal money from you personally, or just the tax payers?

I guess either way, it doesn't bode well for me being able to collect on the $50 that Droopy owes me.

I'm starting to see a pattern here among conservatives. Running up massive debt and making promises that they have no intention of keeping.
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."

Daniel C. Peterson, 2014
_Doctor CamNC4Me
_Emeritus
Posts: 21663
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:02 am

Re: A Nation of Thieves

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_beastie
_Emeritus
Posts: 14216
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:26 am

Re: A Nation of Thieves

Post by _beastie »

Everybody Wang Chung wrote:Wait...Did Droopy steal money from you personally, or just the tax payers?

I guess either way, it doesn't bode well for me being able to collect on the $50 that Droopy owes me.

I'm starting to see a pattern here among conservatives. Running up massive debt and making promises that they have no intention of keeping.


LOL

No, not from me, personally, but from the taxpayers. Droopy has admitted, in the past, receiving government assistance in his foolish youth, before he got "born-again" in terms of conversion to his current economic philosophy, such as it is. I was just wondering if that conversion was sincere enough to repay what he "stole".

Interestingly, he's not the only uber conservative to post on this board who has admitted, at least in the past, receiving government assistance.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_beastie
_Emeritus
Posts: 14216
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:26 am

Re: A Nation of Thieves

Post by _beastie »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:http://americanjesusblogs.blogspot.com/2012/08/blog-post.html


heh heh
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_Droopy
_Emeritus
Posts: 9826
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: A Nation of Thieves

Post by _Droopy »

EAllusion wrote:
Droopy wrote:Browning's solution is captured in the title of his last chapter, "Just Say No," where he proposes, "The federal government shall not adopt any policies that transfer income (resources) from some Americans to other Americans."


That includes literally all government activity. If you think that, that can be debated, but you clearly aren't an anarcho-capitalist. If you aren't an anarchist, why are you posting articles implicitly defending anarchy? You can't advocate doubling defense spending and at the same time argue against all policy that involves wealth transfer of one set of Americans to another. You can't advocate defense spending at all, actually, but wanting it to increase by a trillion so dollars year is particularly ludicrous.


You might want to go back and read William's essay again, just for reading comprehension practice. The crux and core of the book is the welfare state, the "egalitarian mentality," and the concept of redistribution of wealth to right what is considered the collective moral wrong of poverty and income inequality.

Filling potholes does not seem to be a part of the thesis.

Not even a nice try, D, and neither I nor Williams are anarchists.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
Post Reply