My Weekly Russell: 2) Prophet Commands Russell to Violate Doctor-Patient Confidentiality

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Gabriel
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My Weekly Russell: 2) Prophet Commands Russell to Violate Doctor-Patient Confidentiality

Post by Gabriel »

Harold, never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.

From Russell’s autobiography, From Heart to Heart. Salt Lake City: Russell M. Nelson. 1979, pp. 166-168
”Russell M. Nelson” wrote:…In the midst of the understandable discouragement and depression following an open-heart operation, plus an attack of facial weakness due to Bell's palsy, came the death of President Joseph Fielding Smith in July of 1972. President Kimball would now become president of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, not just acting president, as he had hitherto been. I went immediately to his home upon learning of the death of President Smith, and on that Monday morning Sister Kimball and I helped him get dressed and get to the meeting of the Council of the Twelve where the leadership of the Church was to be reorganized. I even sat down at his typewriter and wrote a medical report on President Kimball that I hoped would be of some value to President Harold B. Lee as he, the new president of the Church, considered the reorganization.

From that time forward President Kimball began to gain power and strength. As more was asked of him in the Church, and as more was expected from him, his ability to perform increased remarkably.

On November 1, 1972, Sister Kimball became ill. She was in Relief Society and became distressed, but not wanting to disturb the teacher, she stayed until the meeting was over. Then, not wanting to disturb her husband, she went directly to Dr. Wilkinson, who made the diagnosis of acute appendicitis, sent her to the hospital, and called for my help. President Kimball and I arrived at the hospital about the same time, and of course, we knew that an emergency appendectomy was required. They wanted me to do it.

President Kimball was so upset with the illness and imminent operation that he was somewhat beside himself. I said to him, "President Kimball, we'd have time for you to give Sister Kimball a blessing before her operation, if you'd like to do that.”

With tears in his eyes, he looked up at me and said, “Will you do it for me, Brother Nelson?”

Thus I had the great privilege of giving Sister Kimball a blessing, aided by her beloved husband, the president of the Council of the Twelve. After that an acutely inflamed appendix was removed. There was already some purulent material spreading beyond the area of the appendix. She developed a deep pelvic abscess later on, which prolonged her convalescence. This complication, miserable as it was for all concerned, brought me the sacred privilege and blessing of coming into their home on nearly a daily basis to monitor Sister Kimball’s progress. She responded to the blessings of the priesthood and the assistance that antibiotic therapy provided.

In November 1973, President Kimball sustained what we initially thought may have been a small stroke. We admitted him to the hospital, did a cerebral arteriographic examination, and found the anatomy of the circulation to the brain to be perfect. There was no evidence of a stroke. President Kimball pledged me to secrecy about this study. He did not want the Brethren to know that he'd been in the hospital again, for above all, he did not want to be a drain on them or the Church. I assured him that I did not discuss the affairs of my patients even with my wife and that he need not worry.

It was not long, though, before I received a phone call from President Harold B. Lee, who in his commanding tone said, "I want you to tell me about Spencer. I want to know why he was in the hospital, what you did, and how ill he is, for he has assigned himself to go to Great Britain and South Africa, and I just don't want him to go on such a long journey if it would constitute risk to his life. Therefore, I need to know what's going on.” President Lee was truly concerned for the welfare of President Kimball.

I was torn by two very profound loyalties: one, the loyalty of a doctor to his patient, which is always one of great confidence and privilege, and which in this case had been reinforced by my word to President Kimball that nothing would be said to the Brethren. On the other hand, I was now speaking with the president of the Church, the prophet for whom I prayed daily, who was asking for help that only I could give. I knew that the request of the president of the Church, the prophet of God, had to take higher priority than any other loyalties. I told him all that I knew about President Kimball's illness.

Immediately after that conversation, I telephoned President Kimball and confessed to him that I had been required to break a trust. Contrary to his request. I had revealed the nature of his illness to President Lee. President Kimball was most gracious; he understood the dilemma in which I had been placed and supported me fully.


President Kimball then went on to his assignments in England and Africa, rededicating Africa to the preaching of the gospel and prophesying that stakes would dot that land. He returned just before Christmas of 1973.

Then that fateful night of December 26, 1973, arrived. I heard on television that President Lee had died and that President Romney and President Kimball were at the hospital. I immediately left home, knowing that my place was beside President Kimball. I went into the board of director’s room at the LDS Hospital and there found President Kimball and President Romney. We embraced each other and wept, and I said, “I thought maybe you needed me.” And he said, “I surely do. Thanks for coming.” I shared a very special hour with President Kimball.
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Res Ipsa
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Re: My Weekly Russell: 2) Prophet Commands Russell to Violate Doctor-Patient Confidentiality

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If Nelson was able to phone Kimball right after the call with Lee, why not tell Lee he wanted to speak with Kimball first? If Kimball understood and forgave him so quickly, I suspect he would have given permission for the disclosure. Odd.

ETA: This the kind of story that leads me to be skeptical toward LDS politicians. I really hate even having to think about that.
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Re: My Weekly Russell: 2) Prophet Commands Russell to Violate Doctor-Patient Confidentiality

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A psychiatrist in my ward growing up said on more than one occasion that Nelson was a suck-up to the brethren, that he jockeyed to get assigned to their cases. I'm sure it was "inspiration" of course to cater to the brethren like he did, because we are all edified by the tall tales Nelson relates and Mormon jesus loves tall tales. I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that the call from Lee was made up or exaggerated for effect.
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Re: My Weekly Russell: 2) Prophet Commands Russell to Violate Doctor-Patient Confidentiality

Post by Lem »

Gabriel wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:59 pm
Harold, never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.

From Russell’s autobiography, From Heart to Heart. Salt Lake City: Russell M. Nelson. 1979, pp. 166-168
”Russell M. Nelson” wrote:…It was not long, though, before I received a phone call from President Harold B. Lee, who in his commanding tone said, "I want you to tell me about Spencer. I want to know why he was in the hospital, what you did, and how ill he is, for he has assigned himself to go to Great Britain and South Africa, and I just don't want him to go on such a long journey if it would constitute risk to his life. Therefore, I need to know what's going on.” President Lee was truly concerned for the welfare of President Kimball.

I was torn by two very profound loyalties: one, the loyalty of a doctor to his patient, which is always one of great confidence and privilege, and which in this case had been reinforced by my word to President Kimball that nothing would be said to the Brethren. On the other hand, I was now speaking with the president of the Church, the prophet for whom I prayed daily, who was asking for help that only I could give. I knew that the request of the president of the Church, the prophet of God, had to take higher priority than any other loyalties. I told him all that I knew about President Kimball's illness.
Wow. So his point here seems to be that if lds health providers have a higher priority than preserving the confidentiality of their patients, they will betray their patients' trust.

I have no problem also believing that Russell similarly slighted his professional obligations, in this case in order to further his standing in his religion.
...I knew that the request of the president of the Church, the prophet of God, had to take higher priority than any other loyalties. I told him all that I knew about President Kimball's illness.
On a practical level, Nelson is admitting to an act of malpractice.
Last edited by Lem on Thu Sep 02, 2021 2:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My Weekly Russell: 2) Prophet Commands Russell to Violate Doctor-Patient Confidentiality

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With tears in his eyes, he looked up at me and said, “Will you do it for me, Brother Nelson?”
Another invented scenario?

In his defense, maybe this didn't even really happen? lol.

I agree with the point that he could have just called Kimball and work it out first just as easily. In fact, I'm inclined to believe that option is equally likely. With the witnesses gone, that's an easy one to switch up as a manufactured Mormon moral dilemma, where the prophet always wins. It's also not a very good teaching tool because it worked out too easily, and doesn't show the refiner's fire of making the hard decision.

What if Kimball had been the Prophet and Lee second in command, but the seriousness of the situation otherwise equal?
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Re: My Weekly Russell: 2) Prophet Commands Russell to Violate Doctor-Patient Confidentiality

Post by MG 2.0 »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 5:17 pm
If Nelson was able to phone Kimball right after the call with Lee, why not tell Lee he wanted to speak with Kimball first? If Kimball understood and forgave him so quickly, I suspect he would have given permission for the disclosure. Odd.

ETA: This the kind of story that leads me to be skeptical toward LDS politicians. I really hate even having to think about that.
Why not this or why not that…c’mon man (nod to Joe), can’t you take anything at face value that a General Authority says or does? And do you always default to the position of alterior motives?

And hey, I think Mike Lee is doing an awesome job. I think you’re putting too much unnecessary effort into your apparent inbuilt skepticism towards LDS leaders.

I think this a cool story. Looks like the poster that is dissing President Nelson is looking for opportunities to criticize the Lord’s anointed. Common pattern in these parts.

Regards,
MG
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Re: My Weekly Russell: 2) Prophet Commands Russell to Violate Doctor-Patient Confidentiality

Post by Equality »

Why couldn't Lee have just called Kimball directly and asked Kimball about his health? Then Nelson would not have been put in such a position. And why didn't Nelson just tell Lee he couldn't betray a confidence? Why would Lee not think less of Nelson after Nelson so blithely violated his professional obligation to keep his patient's medical status confidential? Why didn't Nelson just tell Lee "Hey, here' are Spence's digits if you wanna call him." Or why couldn't Lee have just "inquired of the Lord"? Seems like the well-being of one of Jesus' 15 key holders on Earth would be the kind of subject a Prophet could get a revelation from deity on. You know, if "continuing revelation" is as frequent as the apostles all claim it is.

Reading between the lines, it appears Nelson is suggesting that Lee called Nelson because Lee didn't believe Kimball would be honest about the state of his own health.

No matter how one slices it, none of these so-called prophets comes off looking good in this story. Why did Nelson share it? I guess Nelson thinks he looks like an obedient, faithful servant who will do anything the Prophet asks of him, even if it is unethical, immoral, or illegal, which Nelson seems to think is some sort of virtue.
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Re: My Weekly Russell: 2) Prophet Commands Russell to Violate Doctor-Patient Confidentiality

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MG 2.0 wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 1:07 am
Res Ipsa wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 5:17 pm
If Nelson was able to phone Kimball right after the call with Lee, why not tell Lee he wanted to speak with Kimball first? If Kimball understood and forgave him so quickly, I suspect he would have given permission for the disclosure. Odd.

ETA: This the kind of story that leads me to be skeptical toward LDS politicians. I really hate even having to think about that.
Why not this or why not that…c’mon man (nod to Joe), can’t you take anything at face value that a General Authority says or does? And do you always default to the position of alterior motives?

And hey, I think Mike Lee is doing an awesome job. I think you’re putting too much unnecessary effort into your apparent inbuilt skepticism towards LDS leaders.

I think this a cool story. Looks like the poster that is dissing President Nelson is looking for opportunities to criticize the Lord’s anointed. Common pattern in these parts.

Regards,
MG
I’m taking what Nelson says at 100% value. He was ordered by the president of the church to violate doctor patient confidentiality. And he did, when he easily could have sought the patient’s permission. For the President to order him to do so displays incredible disdain for obligations that professionals — doctors, lawyers, clergy — promise their patients, clients, or congregants. For Nelson to break that obligation is inexcusable, especially when could easily have sought permission.

I have never worried about divided loyalty of LDS politicians, but this gives me concern. If LDS leaders take professional oaths this lightly, why in the world would I trust them to take their oaths to the Constitution seriously?
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Re: My Weekly Russell: 2) Prophet Commands Russell to Violate Doctor-Patient Confidentiality

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Res Ipsa wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 1:26 am
MG 2.0 wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 1:07 am


Why not this or why not that…c’mon man (nod to Joe), can’t you take anything at face value that a General Authority says or does? And do you always default to the position of alterior motives?

And hey, I think Mike Lee is doing an awesome job. I think you’re putting too much unnecessary effort into your apparent inbuilt skepticism towards LDS leaders.

I think this a cool story. Looks like the poster that is dissing President Nelson is looking for opportunities to criticize the Lord’s anointed. Common pattern in these parts.

Regards,
MG
I’m taking what Nelson says at 100% value. He was ordered by the president of the church to violate doctor patient confidentiality. And he did, when he easily could have sought the patient’s permission. For the President to order him to do so displays incredible disdain for obligations that professionals — doctors, lawyers, clergy — promise their patients, clients, or congregants. For Nelson to break that obligation is inexcusable, especially when could easily have sought permission.

I have never worried about divided loyalty of LDS politicians, but this gives me concern. If LDS leaders take professional oaths this lightly, why in the world would I trust them to take their oaths to the Constitution seriously?
There has already been cause for concern.
Stuart Reid, former UT State Senator wrote:While serving in the Utah State Senate, I prepared religious freedom legislation with the intent to protect religion and individual religious conscience, absent non-discrimination protections. The public was never made aware of my religious freedom legislation for one reason alone: Elder Oaks personally asked me not to advance it. He felt that if I introduced my legislation, it would disrupt efforts to discover common ground for each party to obtain rights without trampling on the rights of the other. Solely, because of his request, I “protected” my legislation from public access and withheld it for two successive legislative sessions from being introduced in the Senate.
https://www.deseret.com/2015/2/3/205577 ... ion-rights
[my emphasis]

That a former Senator can write an Op-Ed with statements like this I find almost unbelievable. How did Elder Oaks even come to know about draft legislation that was “protected” from public access?
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Re: My Weekly Russell: 2) Prophet Commands Russell to Violate Doctor-Patient Confidentiality

Post by MG 2.0 »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 1:26 am
MG 2.0 wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 1:07 am


Why not this or why not that…c’mon man (nod to Joe), can’t you take anything at face value that a General Authority says or does? And do you always default to the position of alterior motives?

And hey, I think Mike Lee is doing an awesome job. I think you’re putting too much unnecessary effort into your apparent inbuilt skepticism towards LDS leaders.

I think this a cool story. Looks like the poster that is dissing President Nelson is looking for opportunities to criticize the Lord’s anointed. Common pattern in these parts.

Regards,
MG
I’m taking what Nelson says at 100% value. He was ordered by the president of the church to violate doctor patient confidentiality. And he did, when he easily could have sought the patient’s permission. For the President to order him to do so displays incredible disdain for obligations that professionals — doctors, lawyers, clergy — promise their patients, clients, or congregants. For Nelson to break that obligation is inexcusable, especially when could easily have sought permission.

I have never worried about divided loyalty of LDS politicians, but this gives me concern. If LDS leaders take professional oaths this lightly, why in the world would I trust them to take their oaths to the Constitution seriously?
You weren’t there and are not privy to all that was going on/transpired. Yet you make a snap judgement based on what may be incomplete information and then use your new found premise to judge LDS politicians.

Bit of a stretch all the way around

Regards,
MG
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