LDS leader has been ensconced

[_Mittens]

Janice Gordon


I believe that the LDS church strayed from the path of religion a very long time ago. They have taken up the mantle of business corporation for the most part and have been increasing their wealth and influence from the pocketbooks of the general membership. As a youngster growing up in this faith, I was proud to join in the claim that our clergy was 100% volunteer lay clergy.
I never dreamed that so many in the hierarchy of the faith were salaried, nor how they were positioned to receive these salaries. I joined others in pride, every time the church announced new temples to be built because I believed as I was indoctrinated to believe that we were 'anxiously engaged in building God's kingdom on earth.'
And then I began to study the history and deeper doctrines of the faith. I refused to limit my sources for research and study to LDS resources. In fact...some of the most damning things I read were in the early volumes of The History of the Church. Decades of conditioning melted away.
I learned of how Joseph Smith had been ordaining black males to the priesthood. I learned of men like Elijah Abel, who along with his sons, served missions, married in the temple and served as temple workers. Until Joseph Smith died.

Then as I read of the bigotry of Brigham Young in the Journal of Discourses, I saw the contradiction of the D&C claiming that God did not vary from what He has said, nor did He alter his path from the right to the left.
And so...either Joseph was lying when he claimed that God commanded him to ordain blacks, or Brigham was lying when he claimed that God had instructed him that the Negro was the vile seed of Cain and would NEVER be worthy to hold the priesthood in this second estate.
It also disturbed me greatly to learn that J.S. was seducing married women away from their lawfully wedded husbands. It didn't bother me to think of him marrying plural wives...even though I was taught at Seminary that he only had one wife...Emma. And that Emma denied that her husband had married plural wives to the day she died. I was willing to overlook the contradictions until I learned about his child brides, and about what he did to women like Sarah Pratt.

But here's the clincher as I see it. IMPO...of course...the purity and simplicity of the gospel of Jesus Christ is exemplified in the parable of the sheep and the goats. I continue to see the LDS church announcing numerous multi million dollar temples every year. That was bad enough, in light of this economy and so many people losing their jobs and their homes...but when I learned that the LDS church via it's corporate entities had expended 6 BILLION DOLLARS to build the mega mall and high rise condo complex in SLC...I was dumbfounded.
I recently read a newspaper article regarding the homeless problem in SLC. Volunteers go searching through alleyways, and in parks, and in dumpsters looking for the homeless. They have found hundreds...and these are only the ones they could find. People living in the streets. Elderly. Medically fragile. Even veterans.
There aren't enough shelter facilities for them, and even if there were...many refuse to stay in these shelters because they are overcrowded, and they get sick whenever they have stayed in them.
And so...even though it is very dangerous to sleep in the street, or on a bus stop bench, or in a park...and even though many have been violently assaulted, and even suffered brain damage from these assaults they continue to prefer the streets to the shelters.

I read of one organization that has a building with about 128 tiny studio apartments which are used for temporary housing units. There is rarely if ever a vacancy. And then I consider the multi million dollar condo (tax exempt courtesy of the SLC Housing Authorities) in which the LDS leader has been ensconced. I think of his costly apparel, full staff of serving staff, chef, a chauffeur, numerous personal staff members and now personal 'handlers' as he is dealing with dementia.
I consider the fact that the One this church claims to follow, to base the foundation of their church on...didn't own a roof over his head, but slept where he could find shelter. That he didn't wear costly apparel, but robes of simple homespun and sandals on his feet. That he didn't have wherewithal to purchase food, or a room for the night...but depended upon the charity of strangers.
I consider that he didn't even own the tomb he was laid in...but it was donated by another. And I look at what this religious organization has become...and I am heartily saddened and disgusted.
The LDS church claims many charitable activities...but they are not transparent in their finances. I understand that what they actually donate amounts to about as much as one drop of spittle in a spittoon. When I think of what 6 BILLION DOLLARS could do to alleviate homelessness, hunger, fragile people exposed to the cold of winter...I am sickened when the LDS church continues to claim to be the only church on the face of the earth with the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

In my estimation...the fullness of His gospel...is outlined in the parable of the sheep and the goats.
Here is the primary change I'd like to see occur in this religious organization. I would like to see them return to the status of a religion and drop the business corporation. I would like to see them actually practice what Yeshua (Jesus the Christ) preached, when he encountered the rich young ruler. When even one child goes hungry, lacks adequate shelter, and clothing...then the leader of a church claiming to have the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ should not be housed like a King.
Especially when everything he has comes courtesy of the general membership of the faith...including the poorest in third world countries.

[_Mittens]

A change has been made in the First Book of Nephi, evidently in an attempt to strengthen the Mormon claim that baptism was practiced by the people in the Old Testament. This verse is taken from Isaiah 48, and appears as follows in the 1830 edition of the Book of Mormon:

"Hearken and hear this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of the Lord ... " (Book of Mormon, 1830 edition, page 52)

In modern editions it reads as follows:

"Hearken and hear this, O house of Jacob, who are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, or out of the waters of baptism, who swear by the name of the Lord ... " (Book of Mormon, 1964 edition, 1 Nephi 20:1)

It is interesting to note that even the signed statement by the eight witnesses to the Book of Mormon has been altered. In the 1830 edition (last page) it read:

"... that Joseph Smith, Jr. the Author and Proprietor of this work, has shewn unto us the plates ... "

In the 1964 edition it reads:

"... That Joseph Smith, Jun., the Translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates ... "

[_Bazooka]

It is interesting to note that even the signed statement by the eight witnesses to the Book of Mormon has been altered. In the 1830 edition (last page) it read:

"... that Joseph Smith, Jr. the Author and Proprietor of this work, has shewn unto us the plates ... "

In the 1964 edition it reads:

"... That Joseph Smith, Jun., the Translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates ... "

I didn't know that.
What a disgrace, putting words into the witnesses mouths after they are dead.

[_Franktalk]

I didn't know that.
What a disgrace, putting words into the witnesses mouths after they are dead.

A common practice for all churches of men. But God's word is still available and we must sort out the message from the words of men. Until Christ returns it will be hard to trust any church. But I have been lucky. I have met many people who love God and are strong in the spirit. Just keep your eyes open and don't throw out the baby with the bath water.

[_LittleNipper]

I didn't know that.
What a disgrace, putting words into the witnesses mouths after they are dead.

A common practice for all churches of men. But God's word is still available and we must sort out the message from the words of men. Until Christ returns it will be hard to trust any church. But I have been lucky. I have met many people who love God and are strong in the spirit. Just keep your eyes open and don't throw out the baby with the bath water.

But one must find the Baby and lift him out of the bath water... And one nust find those that love the only God and not a god.

[_Imwashingmypirate]

O.O

I usually avoid the Celestial Forum because I figure it's too much for my punie brain. But really, this might be where the answers are that I'm too afraid to find.

I know the church doesn't hold the love of Christ that I want to have but I go in hopes that it is better than nothing but it is so hard to get the balance right. It is just so hard to know what the purest truth is. I chose a Physics degree, partly to find the answers I was looking for but only fried my brain instead. I know less now than when I first joined this forum. It makes me sad.

The evidence is here that the church is far from perfect but it is for us to choose the importance of that perfection. Would we rather live in bliss and focus on the fundamental ideas within the church or acknowledge the power, the alterations and either be faced with the difficulty of being a church member with the battle in our minds or leave church and then be faced with finding a new way.

Quite often I see people saying they have become atheist after leaving Mormonism. I think that is a shame because usually the thing that takes people away from this church is that they feel it is not Christ focussed enough and is very much business like. So, why deny Christ when denying one church that is relating to Christ? Is it just easier to scrap it all than to actually work hard on your own to find God? If Atheists don't like religion, then what is more perfect for them than a place where people gather in a business like fashion and are in a net of safety as such if they are willing to put into it, like an investment. I mean what does it really matter to them if they don't believe in being judged for being in the wrong or right religion?

I personally think God is undeniable. "God" is just a word we use to name the thing/person/whatever that created the universe and the everything beyond that. So in a sense we all have the same God because there is only one God, one everything and one nothing all at the same time and so regardless of how we perceive God (which is impossible in it's fullest because we can't even perceive the laws that Govern the Physics of our planet), we can never know the fullness of God as long as we are human and living in these bodies. We can aim to try to understand all that is possible for us to understand at this time about God and what he created. I just don't know where to look lol. But maybe nothing that isn't true can't exist. So perhaps it is all of the belief systems that have some of it right but have just accessed a different portion of God.

:/ P

[_Mary]

I think I agree with everything in the opening post on this thread. I have never liked the corporate aspect to the church, and haven't liked it since I listened to Spencer Kimball tell Alan Wicker on a popular BBC show in the 70s that it was unlikely that a carpenter or caretaker would ever be prophet or leader. It made me feel downcast and sad.

Still, show me a perfect church with perfect doctrines, a perfect culture and perfect leadership. I don't think it exists. Of course one has to define 'perfect', and I think that's a tricky area also. This is why I stay on the outside of organised religion.

[_Ceeboo]

Hello pirate!

I enjoyed your post and wanted to offer a few comments. Hope that's okay by you!

I know the church doesn't hold the love of Christ that I want to have but I go in hopes that it is better than nothing but it is so hard to get the balance right.

Although I agree that the LDS church does not hold the love of Christ, I would suggest that no church does. Christ is the One, and only One, who does the holding!

Would we rather live in bliss and focus on the fundamental ideas within the church or acknowledge the power, the alterations and either be faced with the difficulty of being a church member with the battle in our minds or leave church and then be faced with finding a new way.

A very personal and deeply individual choice/decision that ought to me made with great caution. A blanket right or wrong answer does not exist for an entire community of random people with a potentially wide range of individual and deeply layered circumstances, in my opinion.

Quite often I see people saying they have become atheist after leaving Mormonism.

This has been my experience too! (To be fair, my experience is quite narrow and perhaps severely slanted)

I think that is a shame because usually the thing that takes people away from this church is that they feel it is not Christ focussed enough and is very much business like. So, why deny Christ when denying one church that is relating to Christ?

No comment!

I personally think God is undeniable.

Me too!

I would add that it is my opinion that a Creator is just as rational, believable and probable (if not more so) than the only other option on the table.

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_Bazooka]

Hello pirate!

I enjoyed your post and wanted to offer a few comments.

No comment!

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_Ceeboo]

Hello pirate!

I enjoyed your post and wanted to offer a few comments.

No comment!

Peace,
Ceeboo

Bazooka - 1
Ceeboo - 0

(But the game is still young)

Peace,
Ceeboo