?????Occult Context of Joseph Smith?????s 1823 Discovery of Gold Plates"

[_Fence Sitter]

Except that Joseph was not a kid when he did his money digging.

Not that I agree with FAQ's assessment but If I recall correctly Joseph Smith started his money digging at 14ish.

[_Maksutov]

Very interesting. It's amazing how many predecessors Joseph Smith had...very few of the elements of his story were unique. Truly a product of his time.

[_Bob Loblaw]

Very interesting. It's amazing how many predecessors Joseph Smith had...very few of the elements of his story were unique. Truly a product of his time.

One of the great things about Fawn Brodie's biography is its recitation of who else was having visions at the time. She does an excellent job of creating the context in which Joseph Smith emerged as a visionary, seer, and prophet. Richard Bushman's Joseph Smith occurs in more of a cultural vacuum.

[_Maksutov]

Very interesting. It's amazing how many predecessors Joseph Smith had...very few of the elements of his story were unique. Truly a product of his time.

One of the great things about Fawn Brodie's biography is its recitation of who else was having visions at the time. She does an excellent job of creating the context in which Joseph Smith emerged as a visionary, seer, and prophet. Richard Bushman's Joseph Smith occurs in more of a cultural vacuum.

It's kind of like the West Coast in the 60s...in the time and place, the social ferment, the gurus and seekers rise up.

[_Bob Loblaw]

It's kind of like the West Coast in the 60s...in the time and place, the social ferment, the gurus and seekers rise up.

In the end, Joseph Smith's life and the religion he produced are pretty much what you would expect to emerge from that time period. If anything, he was more of a borrower than an innovator when it came to religious thought and practice.

[_Uncle Dale]

Boring....

Every kid on the planet in small towns have always gone treasure hunting.
Joseph was a little different because he saw things and was successful a few times...

I recall being told this, in a discussion group held at Graceland
College, when I was in Iowa years ago.

It was the first time I had heard Reorganized LDS priesthood not
only admitting to Brother Joseph's treasure hunting, but also
explaining how he was able to see under the ground and how the
other treasure hunters needed his skills (his "keys") in order
to know where the moving treasures had gone, underground.

I should have taken notes, but was a bit too flabbergasted, just
to hear these unpublished accounts related. If I recall correctly
the discovery of one deposit of gold enabled Joseph Smith, sr.
to make a yearly mortgage payment on his Manchester farm.

But these things were NEVER discussed in Sunday meetings.
Maybe they were secret... or, at least sacred.

UD

[_Equality]

Boring....

Every kid on the planet in small towns have always gone treasure hunting.
Joseph was a little different because he saw things and was successful a few times.

Further, things like dowsing, etc. etc. in those day's weren't considered "occult", they were normal folk practices. by the way, there are Corporations that still "dowse" today, and they are successful.

You're getting more "bigoted" their Vogel? "Occult"? Really???

Does Dowsing Work?

Anyone who thinks dowsing is "successful" should demonstrate the ability in a controlled test for the Randi Foundation, which offers a $1 million prize to anyone “to anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event.”

By the way, the use of the word "occult" is not a bigoted slur. The word goes back to the 16th century and means, simply, "of or pertaining to magic, astrology, or any system claiming use or knowledge of secret or supernatural powers or agencies." Seems to describe Smith's treasure-digging perfectly well.

[_Equality]

in order to know where the moving treasures had gone, underground.

Ah yes, the old "slippery treasures." Funny how that particular frontier folk belief was also present in ancient Nephite culture:

35 Yea, we have hid up our treasures and they have slipped away from us, because of the curse of the land.

36 O that we had repented in the day that the word of the Lord came unto us; for behold the land is cursed, and all things are become slippery, and we cannot hold them.

[_Bob Loblaw]

Ah yes, the old "slippery treasures." Funny how that particular frontier folk belief was also present in ancient Nephite culture:

Pure coincidence.

[_Uncle Dale]

in order to know where the moving treasures had gone, underground.

Ah yes, the old "slippery treasures." Funny how that particular frontier folk belief was also present in ancient Nephite culture:

35 Yea, we have hid up our treasures and they have slipped away from us, because of the curse of the land.

36 O that we had repented in the day that the word of the Lord came unto us; for behold the land is cursed, and all things are become slippery, and we cannot hold them.

The study group I attended had Pearl Wilcox's research into the
late 1800s Kirtland Saints, including the reminiscences of Electa
Stratton. I suppose some of this documentation is preserved in
the CoC Archives.

Father Beaman of Livonia, NY was a companion of Joseph, Sr. on
at least one successful treasure hunt, I was told.

Evidently the buried treasures moved around under the earth.
This was ancient knowledge but lost in later times. Joseph Jr.'s
possession of "the keys" to locate moving buried treasure was
the beginning of "the Restoration of the ancient order of things,"
or so the RLDS teacher pointed out.

Joseph's possession of these "keys" was widespread knowledge
in central NY during the mid-1820s. They were even talked about
as far south as the Susquehanna, where an old Spanish silver
mine had also seemingly changed its location.

Or, that was the topic of discussion. I was then the historian of
the RLDS branch in Rock Springs, Wyoming. I went back to that
branch with copies of Mother Smith's history of her son and
Inez Smith Davis' Story of the Church, in order to try and show
that Brother Joseph's treasure hunting had long since been
admitted by the Church leaders. But nobody was interested.

UD