How old was Joseph Smith when the First Vision happened?

[_Bret Ripley]

I am officially the 14-yr old Joseph Smith apologist.

He was 14 when the FV happened!

Bring it on!

Can you produce any objective, verifiable evidence of Joseph Smith's birth date? (If you can be a Joseph Smith apologist, I get to be a Joseph Smith birther.)

[_zeezrom]

I am officially the 14-yr old Joseph Smith apologist.

He was 14 when the FV happened!

Bring it on!

Can you produce any objective, verifiable evidence of Joseph Smith's birth date? (If you can be a Joseph Smith apologist, I get to be a Joseph Smith birther.)

7 I was at this time in my fifteenth year...

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/js-h/1?lang=eng

If you start counting your first year at birth where age 0-1 is your "first year", this would make your "fifteenth year" age 14-15 (14-14.999).

And... the official statement from the Church of Jesus Christ says so:

On a spring day in 1820 14-year-old Joseph Smith sought solitude in a grove of trees and prayed to know which church was true. God the Father and Jesus Christ, "two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description," appeared and spoke with him.

http://www.josephsmith.net/josephsmith/ ... 5e340aRCRD

[_ldsfaqs]

How in the flip could DarthJ and frankly the rest of you who claim to be such "experts" on Mormonism not know something that almost every CHILD in the Church knows???

The official estimate is "14".....

[_Maksutov]

How in the flip could DarthJ and frankly the rest of you who claim to be such "experts" on Mormonism not know something that almost every CHILD in the Church knows???

The official estimate is "14".....

Is that as firm as the official estimate of the location of the Hill Cumorah?

[_zeezrom]

How in the flip could DarthJ and frankly the rest of you who claim to be such "experts" on Mormonism not know something that almost every CHILD in the Church knows???

The official estimate is "14".....

Exactly!

[_Bret Ripley]

7 I was at this time in my fifteenth year...

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/js-h/1?lang=eng

If you start counting your first year at birth where age 0-1 is your "first year", this would make your "fifteenth year" age 14-15 (14-14.999).

And... the official statement from the Church of Jesus Christ says so:

On a spring day in 1820 14-year-old Joseph Smith sought solitude in a grove of trees and prayed to know which church was true. God the Father and Jesus Christ, "two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description," appeared and spoke with him.

http://www.josephsmith.net/josephsmith/ ... 5e340aRCRD

I see. How soon can I get baptized?

[_zeezrom]

How in the flip could DarthJ and frankly the rest of you who claim to be such "experts" on Mormonism not know something that almost every CHILD in the Church knows???

The official estimate is "14".....

for what it's worth, the euphemism "flip" is pretty much the same as saying “F”. You might as well be authentic.

[Guest]

How in the flip could DarthJ and frankly the rest of you who claim to be such "experts" on Mormonism not know something that almost every CHILD in the Church knows???

The official estimate is "14".....

Thanks for your incisive question, ldsfaqs!

In the February 1835 Latter Day Saints Messenger and Advocate (Vo. 1 No. 5, page 78), Oliver Cowdery says this:

You will recall that I mentioned the time of a religious excitement, in Palmyra and vicinity to have been in the 15th year of our brother J. Smith, Jr.'s age---that was an error in the type---it should have been in the 17th.---You will please remember this correction, as it will be necessary for the full understanding of what will happen in time. This would bring the date down to the year 1823.

At the link below, you can read a scan of this newspaper provided by that fortress of anti-Mormon propaganda, Brigham Young University:

http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm/ref/co ... 46/id/7160

Oliver Cowdery goes on (still on page 78) to say this about the impact that the religious revival (which actually happened in 1823, not 1820) had on the 17 year-old Joseph Smith, Jr.:

And it is only necessary for me to say, that while this excitement continued, he continued to call upon the Lord in secret for a full manifestation of divine approbation, and for, to him, the all important information, if a Supreme being did exist, to have an assurance that he was accepted of him.

I wonder why Joseph Smith would be wondering in 1823 if a Supreme Being existed, when he had spoken with Elohim and Jehovah face to face in 1820.

Anyhow, on pages 78-80, Oliver Cowdery informs us that the manifestation Joseph was seeking came of September 21, 1823, when a "messenger" appeared in Joseph's bedroom and informed him that his prayers had been heard, that his sins were forgiven, and that there was a record buried near Joseph's home that contained the true gospel.

Discussion questions:

1. Is there any discrepancy between the following two stories?

a. There was a religious revival in 1820 that caused 14 year-old Joseph Smith to wonder which church was true, and in response to his prayer about this issue, God the Father and Jesus Christ personally appeared to him in the woods near his home.

b. There was a religious revival in 1823 that caused 17 year-old Joseph Smith to wonder if God existed, and if so whether Joseph Smith was in good standing with Him, and in response to Joseph's prayers about these issues, an angel appeared in Joseph Smith's bedroom.

2. In 1835, Oliver Cowdery was the Second Elder in the church and Assistant President of the church. He had been the scribe for most of the translation of the Book of Mormon, was one of the Three Witnesses of the Book of Mormon, and we learn quite some time after the fact that he was present when the Aaronic and the Melchizedek priesthood were each restored. A year later, Oliver Cowdery would be present with Joseph Smith when Jesus Christ appeared in the Kirtland Temple, after which several ancient prophets appeared and the keys to the sealing power were restored. Oliver Cowdery was writing the history quoted above in an official Mormon newspaper based on discussions he had with Joseph Smith. Was Oliver Cowdery a reliable witness as to what Joseph Smith, Jr. was saying in February 1835 about the First Vision?

[_Bob Loblaw]

Thanks for your incisive question, ldsfaqs!


Discussion questions:

1. Is there any discrepancy between the following two stories?

a. There was a religious revival in 1820 that caused 14 year-old Joseph Smith to wonder which church was true, and in response to his prayer about this issue, God the Father and Jesus Christ personally appeared to him in the woods near his home?

b. There was a religious revival in 1823 that caused 17 year-old Joseph Smith to wonder if God existed, and if so whether Joseph Smith was in good standing with Him, and in response to Joseph's prayers about these issues, an angel appeared in Joseph Smith's bedroom.

2. In 1835, Oliver Cowdery was the Second Elder in the church and Assistant President of the church. He had been the scribe for most of the translation of the Book of Mormon, was one of the Three Witnesses of the Book of Mormon, and we learn quite some time after the fact that he was present when the Aaronic and the Melchizedek priesthood were each restored. A year later, Oliver Cowdery would be present with Joseph Smith when Jesus Christ appeared in the Kirtland Temple, after which several ancient prophets appeared and the keys to the sealing power were restored. Oliver Cowdery was writing the history quoted above in an official Mormon newspaper based on discussions he had with Joseph Smith. Was Oliver Cowdery a reliable witness as to what Joseph Smith, Jr. was saying in February 1835 about the First Vision?

I have just one question: How in the flip could Oliver Cowdery, writing under the direction of Joseph Smith, who claimed to be such an "expert" on Mormonism not know something that almost every CHILD in the Church knows???

[_Brackite]

How in the flip could DarthJ and frankly the rest of you who claim to be such "experts" on Mormonism not know something that almost every CHILD in the Church knows???

The official estimate is "14".....

Thanks for your incisive question, ldsfaqs!

In the February 1835 Latter Day Saints Messenger and Advocate (Vo. 1 No. 5, page 78), Oliver Cowdery says this:

You will recall that I mentioned the time of a religious excitement, in Palmyra and vicinity to have been in the 15th year of our brother J. Smith, Jr.'s age---that was an error in the type---it should have been in the 17th.---You will please remember this correction, as it will be necessary for the full understanding of what will happen in time. This would bring the date down to the year 1823.

At the link below, you can read a scan of this newspaper provided by that fortress of anti-Mormon propaganda, Brigham Young University:

http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm/ref/co ... 46/id/7160

Well, Joseph Smith was 17 years old when the First Vision happened in 1823.