Don Bradley on MormonThink

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_gramps
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Re: Don Bradley on MormonThink

Post by _gramps »

Kishkumen wrote:
Mary wrote:I'm coming to feel that the whole site is 'satire' much like President Paternoster. (Where is he? He was brilliant.)


I believe satire is a much better tool than this kind of deception.

We lecture on the topic at Cassius University every term.


I went over and checked the whole thing out, the Facebook page I mean. It is clearly trying to aspire to The Onion quality. It hasn't reached those heights, as yet, but, who knows - give them time.
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Re: Don Bradley on MormonThink

Post by _huckelberry »

Kishkumen wrote:That's what studying literary and religious theory does for you, it helps you see the possibility of more than criminal conspiracies motivating religious groups you don't agree with and/or believe in. But I get how emotionally satisfying it is to wave off the whole thing with the word "lie." It makes all that troubling complexity disappear!

Kishkumen,
It is easy to loose a response in this windy thread. I have been a bit puzzled by the strength of your emotional reaction about this obscure website. You provide some clarification. I think it is easy to see the site as in poor taste, with its communication undermined by its own slippery salesmanship. I hear you and Don voicing a demand for better more honest communication.I can agree that is a worthy demand.

My first thought about this thread, though many pages back, was to voice a concern that protecting teenagers from negative ideas about the church is well neigh impossible. But that very danger would be an argument for asking better communication. It is teenagers who are in more danger from doubt confusing their understanding of social values. I remember giving a lot of thought to maintaining values despite doubt. The instabilty of age 18 made that more difficult however.
_beastie
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Re: Don Bradley on MormonThink

Post by _beastie »

Kishkumen wrote:
beastie wrote:We agree that 18 is too young to serve a mission. But the point is that the LDS church does not believe that it is too young, and the LDS culture seem to largely agree with that. So, in my opinion, they don't have the right to object that 18 is too young to be exposed to the more problematic side of LDS history and beliefs.


Well, I disagree.


If an eighteen year old is old enough to make such a momentous decision about his/her life, then he/she is old enough to deal with the problematic history of the church.

This reminds me of one thing I found particularly troubling about the temple. You're asked to decide whether or not you're ready to make the most serious covenants of your life before you even know what those covenants are.

Of course there are a couple of separate issues here. One issue is whether or not an 18 year-old is ready to deal with that sort of information. The other is whether or not the authors of the site are being forthright about their intentions. I agree they're not being forthright, although the idea of a parody is interesting. But I adamantly think believers cannot logically insist that an eighteen year-old is too young to be exposed to problematic church history but old enough to serve a mission.

Others have already noted this, but it does seem a bit odd that believers are protesting that 18 is too young for such information, and claiming that the authors of the website have to pretend to be believers because otherwise the target audience would simply view it as "anti-Mormon" and know to avoid it, but at the same time claim that everyone knows the problematic parts of church history, anyway, and that the church doesn't tell members to avoid anti material. Something isn't adding up here.
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_MsJack
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Re: Don Bradley on MormonThink

Post by _MsJack »

Josh Seconal wrote:1. It has the LDS logo. Intelligent readers will understand it is meant to be a faith-promoting site.

Are you saying that polygamy can't be presented as part of a faith-promoting narrative? If so, why do you think that is?

Josh Seconal wrote:2. It links to The Joseph Smith Papers (Resource Center / Joseph Smith Links / Joseph Smith and the Restoration / Related sites / Joseph Smith Papers), which contain all of the dirty details you are looking for.

(A) Who said anything about "dirty details"?
(B) So as long as a Web site links to some other site that contains the whole story, it's off the hook on charges of dishonesty and deception?

Guess that means nearly every anti-Mormon site out there is off the hook then, since most of them link frequently to FAIR, LDS.org, etc.
"It seems to me that these women were the head (κεφάλαιον) of the church which was at Philippi." ~ John Chrysostom, Homilies on Philippians 13

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_EAllusion
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Re: Don Bradley on MormonThink

Post by _EAllusion »

I think if you are old enough to hear reasons to believe in a particular religion, you are old enough to hear reasons to disbelieve a particular religion. Those reasons might have to be age appropriate in their content and age appropriate for what we consider reasonably within the bounds of parental stewardship, but the argument that this might hurt family cohesiveness seems to unjustifiably scapegoat the disbeliever over the believer. It also feels particularly sketchy in the context of a religion that uses questionable methods to inculcate belief in children. And 18 is an awfully old age to be declaring someone too young to hear mature arguments about the nature of the world. As an 18 year old, I could handle things like calculus, political philosophy, and molecular genetics, but not the case for or against Mormonism? That strains credulity.
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Re: Don Bradley on MormonThink

Post by _MsJack »

Bob Loblaw wrote:My favorite (well, least) quote: "Joseph and Emma Smith centered their marriage and family in the gospel of Jesus Christ—an example to all.

Well, you can't really deny that a good chunk of humanity has followed after Joseph Smith's example in regards to their marriages.
"It seems to me that these women were the head (κεφάλαιον) of the church which was at Philippi." ~ John Chrysostom, Homilies on Philippians 13

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_Ceeboo
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Re: Don Bradley on MormonThink

Post by _Ceeboo »

Hey EA! :smile:

EAllusion wrote: As an 18 year old, I could handle things like calculus



CFR!


Peace,
Ceeboo
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Re: Don Bradley on MormonThink

Post by _Quasimodo »

EAllusion wrote:I think if you are old enough to hear reasons to believe in a particular religion, you are old enough to hear reasons to disbelieve a particular religion. Those reasons might have to be age appropriate in their content and age appropriate for what we consider reasonably within the bounds of parental stewardship, but the argument that this might hurt family cohesiveness seems to unjustifiably scapegoat the disbeliever over the believer. It also feels particularly sketchy in the context of a religion that uses questionable methods to inculcate belief in children. And 18 is an awfully old age to be declaring someone too young to hear mature arguments about the nature of the world. As an 18 year old, I could handle things like calculus, political philosophy, and molecular genetics, but not the case for or against Mormonism? That strains credulity.


I agree with all you have said. The only thing I find that might be troubling about the site is that there seems to be an accusation that it's portraying itself falsely.

I don't think that has been determined yet, but I'm against deception in any form. If it's found that the site's purpose (concern for missionaries) is really just that, then I think it's perfectly fair.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.

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Re: Don Bradley on MormonThink

Post by _EAllusion »

Ceeboo wrote:
CFR!


I got a 5 on the AP Calc BC test when I was in high school. So, uh, I probably had a decent handle on it. I know that's not the norm, but the point I was attempting to make is that 18 year olds are usually seniors in highschool / freshman in college level. That requires a fair amount of ability at that point. That's near the absolute peak of some people's lifetime intellectual abilities, in fact. I think we're really shorting that age group if we consider the topic of religious veracity too mature for them on an intellectual level. Of course, no one is doing that since no one is proposing that we leave the subject of religion untouched for people 18 or under. Rather, the argument is aimed, arbitrarily I think, at hearing a mature case for disbelief. And while I appreciate that losing faith can be an emotional minefield with lasting consequences for a young adult, the same is ultimately true of decisions that go into maintaining it.
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Re: Don Bradley on MormonThink

Post by _EAllusion »

Quasimodo wrote:
I agree with all you have said. The only thing I find that might be troubling about the site is that there seems to be an accusation that it's portraying itself falsely.


I think that's a separate issue. I was more interested in the idea I responded to. I don't like and would condemn luring people onto a critical website under false pretenses.
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