Robert Ritner's Decimation of Mormon Egyptology

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_harmony
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Re: Robert Ritner's Decimation of Mormon Egyptology

Post by _harmony »

Kishkumen wrote:
Bob Loblaw wrote:I wonder why it's OK for mopologists to falsely say that Ritner was kicked off of Gee's dissertation committee or to make disparaging and bigoted comments about his sexual orientation, but it's unconscionable for Ritner to mention (with evidence) apparent plagiarism on the part of another Egyptologist. What kind of skewed ethics is fine with this?


Ritner is doing what scholars do. If someone makes a poor case, it is within bounds to correct bad work. I would say, however, that it is better to be as neutral in tone as possible when doing so. I think he risks getting personal in these criticisms.


I'm most impressed with anyone who actually read all the way through the OP.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_Droopy
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Re: Robert Ritner's Decimation of Mormon Egyptology

Post by _Droopy »

Tobin wrote:I see. So someone's religious affiliation makes one a clown and a non-expert in their field? What a fascinating insight you seem to have into the world of scholarship. I would submit that it might be a bit more reasonable approach to consider someone's arguments and work instead of simply dismissing it due to their religion, race, sex and so on.



After watching William Schryver, Gee ect. hand Graham both cheeks day after day, month after month, thread after thread in the pundits forum at the MDD board over the years, its a wonder he still has the chutzpa to show up anywhere and proffer his surly faux scholarship (which as anyone who has followed his bull-in-a-china-closet brawl with the FARMS and FAIR apologists for years knows is mostly thinly disguised ad hominem sniping mixed seamlessly with the standardized, regurgitated arguments he's been fed by others) as serious thinking on this matter.

Graham is really an excellent example of a classic bigot, be the subject matter what it may. If you're a LDS scholar, regardless of credentials, experience, and depth of knowledge, you are not to be taken seriously. You're membership within the class "Mormon" precludes you from serious consideration.

I, on the other hand, having tangled with Kevin for years now, adjudge what I consider to be the generally poor quality of his thinking and argumentation, not on his being an apostate from the church, or being a leftist, but upon the merits of his arguments and the temperament he brings to table of discourse, which is really that of a political activist or crusading journalist, not that of a philosopher of scholar.

And on it goes.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_EAllusion
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Re: Robert Ritner's Decimation of Mormon Egyptology

Post by _EAllusion »

Droopy wrote:

After watching William Schryver, Gee ect. hand Graham both cheeks day after day, month after month, thread after thread


Heh. You really should change your avatar to the black knight from Monty Python.
_Droopy
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Re: Robert Ritner's Decimation of Mormon Egyptology

Post by _Droopy »

Kevin Graham wrote:I posted this at MAD last night and was banned as soon as the mods saw it. I did this because there is a joker over there by the name of Robert F. Smith who keeps blathering about "scholarship" this and "scholarship" that, always trying to justify the harsh criticism presented by FARMS scholars when attacking other non-LDS scholars.


Since when have you been squeamish about harsh attacks, Kevin? Your sudden attack of concern for intellectual decorum and civility is astounding.

He said that was part of scholarship, and he loves to fall back on the three stooges of Mormon Egyptology whenever making arguments regarding the Book of Abraham.

Ritner destroys their credibility.


Highly doubtful, at the very least.

Given Kevin's long, long history of carefully editing, massaging, and cherry-picking the aspects of other's arguments that make his own case look sterling, while equally carefully making sure that other aspects of those arguments that tend to undermine and weaken his own remain well hidden, we'll have to wait and see what those Ritner has attacked have to say about these matters at greater length to look at the relative strengths and weaknesses of both sides, to whatever degree they exist.

In any case, Ritner is spinning his wheels in the same quicksand critics have been spinning there's for the last forty years. Even the title of Ritner's book, The Joseph Smith Egyptian Papyri: A Complete Edition is misleading: we don't have the complete corpus of "the Joseph Smith papyri" such that a "complete edition" could be written. We have the small, fragmentary remains of what was a substantial body of documents that we know existed from eyewitness accounts of both members and non-members of the Church during the 19th Century, and as there is no reason to believe the Sensen or anything else in our possession at present was the source for the Book of Abraham, and no reason to believe that Joseph Smith believed the documents we have were such a source, all Ritner has done here, in essence, is whack another mole in the endless attempt to discredit the Book of Abraham without anything approaching the documentary evidence that would be required to attempt such as task.

Every modestly educated LDS knows that none of the Joseph Smith papyri we now have are the source of the Book of Abraham, and they also know that Joseph never claimed they were.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Droopy
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Re: Robert Ritner's Decimation of Mormon Egyptology

Post by _Droopy »

EAllusion wrote:
Droopy wrote:

After watching William Schryver, Gee ect. hand Graham both cheeks day after day, month after month, thread after thread


Heh. You really should change your avatar to the black knight from Monty Python.



Yup, here come the usual suspects...
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_EAllusion
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Re: Robert Ritner's Decimation of Mormon Egyptology

Post by _EAllusion »

Droopy wrote:

Yup, here come the usual suspects...
http://www.mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3715

Feel free to expound on your theories of who is whipping who in that thread.
_Kishkumen
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Re: Robert Ritner's Decimation of Mormon Egyptology

Post by _Kishkumen »

Droopy wrote:After watching William Schryver, Gee ect. hand Graham both cheeks day after day, month after month, thread after thread in the pundits forum at the MDD board over the years, its a wonder he still has the chutzpa to show up anywhere and proffer his surly faux scholarship (which as anyone who has followed his bull-in-a-china-closet brawl with the FARMS and FAIR apologists for years knows is mostly thinly disguised ad hominem sniping mixed seamlessly with the standardized, regurgitated arguments he's been fed by others) as serious thinking on this matter.


Graham has nothing to do with this. This is about Robert Ritner's scholarship. And Ritner is head and shoulders above Gee. Schryver doesn't count because he is only parroting whatever Gee or someone else has fed him. In any case, you haven't the foggiest clue what you are talking about, Droopy, and anyone with two functioning brain cells will see through your interminable empty bluster in a minute or less.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_sock puppet
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Re: Robert Ritner's Decimation of Mormon Egyptology

Post by _sock puppet »

But Droops is verbose, circumlocutive and pretentious. He's a hat trick.
_Kevin Graham
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Re: Robert Ritner's Decimation of Mormon Egyptology

Post by _Kevin Graham »

I'd love for someone to post one single example of Schryver and Gee whipping me in Pundits.

In reality Schryver avoids me because I have his number. His worst nightmare was when Nemesis invited me back to post at MAD. The first thing I did was destroy his ridiculous Cipher theory and expose his ignorance about in the KEP. He had a conniption fit and the moderators threaten to ban him so he went ahead and banned himself before they could. LOL!

Droopy should remember this well because he was there like a desperate puppy trying to shove his nose in every thread but the mods cut him off every time banning him from those threads. Even the MAD moderators understood that Droopy was an intellectual fraud who has no understanding of.... anything really.
_Elphaba
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Re: Robert Ritner's Decimation of Mormon Egyptology

Post by _Elphaba »

sock puppet wrote:But Droops is verbose, circumlocutive and pretentious. He's a hat trick.
Don't forget his claim to a ". . . continual stream of A grades on my thesis papers, in my two years at university. . . ." (bold mine)

I always remember that and laugh whenever Droopy makes yet another petulant claim of his superior intelligence.
Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)
~~Walt Whitman
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