Post on Mormon Feminist housewives upsets "male allies"

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I think it's reasonable to be expected to be treated equal. However, you can't get Orwellian with equality.

Everybody has the same standards. Everyone gets a shot. That's it.

- Doc

[_Res Ipsa]

Guys, seriously, you're not listening. You're looking for reasons to get offended and dismiss. That's exactly the problem.

[_son of Ishmael]

Guys, seriously, you're not listening. You're looking for reasons to get offended and dismiss. That's exactly the problem.

That's odd. That is the exact same thing they told me when I left the chruch too.

[_Res Ipsa]

Guys, seriously, you're not listening. You're looking for reasons to get offended and dismiss. That's exactly the problem.

That's odd. That is the exact same thing they told me when I left the chruch too.

Therefore......

[_Res Ipsa]

I'm not my wife's birthday ally. I don't see a direct analogy to being an ally of the feminists.

Here's what I see:

Feminist: we're sick and tired of being told our place, how to think, what to say, how to act, etc. by you privileged males! In order to agree with us on this, here's your place, here's how to think, what to say, how to act, etc.

I have a better analogy though. If I go into someone's house, and they ask me to take my shoes off, I do so. I don't take my shoes off in my own house except as dictated by personal comfort, but I respect another person's right to set the customs in their house. I'm willing to see woman-controlled web forums and such in this way, too. But just as I don't get to set the customs for all homes merely by setting the customs for my own home, I don't think any given person, feminist or not, gets to lay claim to the right to set the customs for an entire field of human thought or interaction.

I'll tell you what, though. I have very little interest in being this woman's "ally", in the way she envisions it. Since we don't know each other, I don't imagine she gives a rat's ass whether I'm on her team or not. I wish her good luck in her endeavors.

Are you your wife's ally? If she asks for your help, do you ask her what she wants you do to, or just decide for her what kind of help she should be asking for and do that? That's the point of the analogy.

Your analogy is an interesting one. Given that the post was made at Feminist Mormon Housewives, I'd say she was in her house, so to speak. But if I believe I'm being harmed by general customs, is there really something offensive about trying to change them? Obviously, you choose your own behavior. The OP doesn't have the ability to "make" you conform to any custom. But here, the customs directly affect the OP. So why is she not entitled to speak out against them?

So, as a matter of curiosity, how would you go about applying the golden rule to the OP?

[_Res Ipsa]

I got about two microseconds into her post, and closed out the window.

People like that are exhausting. She's a "Feminist Mormon Housewife".

If that doesn't explain it all, then I don't know what could.

- Doc

Yeah, cuz women who speak out strongly are "exhausting," "strident," "bitches," etc. Pretty ironic that you couldn't be bothered to listen for more than two microseconds.

[Guest]

-

[_Res Ipsa]

2. It’s not about you.
You DO NOT TOUCH a woman without her consent. It doesn’t matter that you recognize the harm done by viewing every encounter as sexualized, you don’t get to be the one to break that down. Do not rub legs, do not let your hands slide down to a woman’s waist during a hug, do not initiate. You follow her lead.


I wish she would elaborate a little more about this. Since I don't normally hug anyone except my wife and daughters, am I suppose to just wait for them to start? And if I am hugging my wife, I am not suppose to let my hands slide down to her waist? Am I supposed to stand by and follow her lead?

Well, you could ask her. I think from the context, she's not talking about your wife and daughter, although I could be wrong. You do get what the "hands slide down to her waist" is all about, right?

Do you think it's okay to touch a woman in a sexual manner without her consent?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Mr. Brad,

Sure sure. That's what was implied.

Look at the bold and italicized font again, and try to infer something other than your own bravery.

- Doc

[_zeezrom]

I don't want to be a male feminist. I want to be a female feminist.