the narrator wrote:1. As I quite explicitly stated, I wanted and viewed my son's blessing as a father's blessing, . . .
In that case, why did you ask for the bishop's permission?
He initially asked the bishop's permission to have the official baby blessing at his home. When the request was ultimately denied by the Stake President, he went forward with a special father's blessing in his home with family present. What actually occurred was not an official Church baby blessing, but a father's blessing. He made no attempt to insist that this blessing was official. There was no recording of it by the ward clerk, etc.
Yoda wrote:He initially asked the bishop's permission to have the official baby blessing at his home. When the request was ultimately denied by the Stake President, he went forward with a special father's blessing in his home with family present. What actually occurred was not an official Church baby blessing, but a father's blessing. He made no attempt to insist that this blessing was official. There was no recording of it by the ward clerk, etc.
As a result, that baby is not included in the records of the Church, not counted as part of the membership and will go through life without being tracked, monitored and hunted down by the Church and it's representatives. That's a lucky escape for that baby.
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
Yoda wrote:He initially asked the bishop's permission to have the official baby blessing at his home. When the request was ultimately denied by the Stake President, he went forward with a special father's blessing in his home with family present. What actually occurred was not an official Church baby blessing, but a father's blessing. He made no attempt to insist that this blessing was official. There was no recording of it by the ward clerk, etc.
As a result, that baby is not included in the records of the Church, not counted as part of the membership and will go through life without being tracked, monitored and hunted down by the Church and it's representatives. That's a lucky escape for that baby.
This is why I don't understand the severity of this from a Church standing. He did not disobey Church rules. He gave his newborn son a father's blessing. That is something every father is entitled to do at any time. There was no reason for TR's to be withheld. And, frankly, if it gets out that the Church is withholding TR's for a father giving a father's blessing, all hell will break loose.
I think that the simplest thing to do, in Loyd's case, if he wanted to "play the game", so to speak, would be to simply have an official baby blessing during Sacrament Meeting, following all of the usual guidelines. He had his special father's blessing with his wife holding the baby, and his family present. Nothing will take away that experience. Now, if he wants his son on official Church records, simply have the "normal" Sacrament Meeting baby blessing and be done with it.
Yoda wrote:This is why I don't understand the severity of this from a Church standing. He did not disobey Church rules. He gave his newborn son a father's blessing. That is something every father is entitled to do at any time. There was no reason for TR's to be withheld. And, frankly, if it gets out that the Church is withholding TR's for a father giving a father's blessing, all hell will break loose.
I would suggest that this is the equivalent of Al Capone getting done for tax evasion. They had to find something that they could make stick.
I think that the simplest thing to do, in Loyd's case, if he wanted to "play the game", so to speak, would be to simply have an official baby blessing during Sacrament Meeting, following all of the usual guidelines. He had his special father's blessing with his wife holding the baby, and his family present. Nothing will take away that experience. Now, if he wants his son on official Church records, simply have the "normal" Sacrament Meeting baby blessing and be done with it.
I would suggest the simplest thing is to let the Church do its worst and make sure it is all aired in public. Bad PR seems to be the only effective deterrent the Church recognises.
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
Bazooka wrote:I would suggest the simplest thing is to let the Church do its worst and make sure it is all aired in public. Bad PR seems to be the only effective deterrent the Church recognises.
I can guarantee you that if a story gets out with the following headline, all hell will break loose in the COB:
LDS Priesthood holder's Temple Recommend revoked for giving father's blessing..
Jason Bourne wrote:It is a sad situation for Narrator and his wife. Like LDST, though I am not surprised he ran afoul of his leaders. His testimony certainly was unorthodox and even a bit in your face. Most LDS leaders and those sitting in the pews on Sunday would squirm quite a bit I am sure when listening to his testimony.
I agree. I read his testimony, and based on that alone I can see why a bishop/SP would feel the need to yank the TR. That said, how they did it was wrong (next time, call the guy in and tell him what you're doing, rather than being sneaky and tagging the TR bar code which can only lead to embarrassment at the temple front desk). And yanking the wife's TR makes no sense based on what I know.
by the way, I've known plenty of folks who have blessed a child at home. That's really a no-brainer. Unfortunately for Loyd, he's got a couple of power-hungry dicks for bishop and SP.
"Moving beyond apologist persuasion, LDS polemicists furiously (and often fraudulently) attack any non-traditional view of Mormonism. They don't mince words -- they mince the truth."
-- Mike Quinn, writing of the FARMSboys, in "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View," p. x (Rev. ed. 1998)
Mormon Church Disciplines New Mother for Holding Her Own Baby
Jack, what are your plans in terms of your soon to be offspring's blessing?
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
harmony wrote:His wife's TR was blocked because she participated in the ceremony by holding the baby.
This would make sense. If what Loyd did was a "blessing" ordinance, then it appears no one other than a MP holder can participate. Here's the language in Section 16.2.1 of Handbook 1 (emphasis added):
"Every member of the church of Christ having children is to bring them unto the elders before the church, who are to lay their hands upon them in the name of Jesus Christ, and bless them in his name." (D&C 20:70). In conformity with this revelation, only Melchizedek Priesthood holders may participate in naming and blessing children. Priesthood leaders should inform members of this instruction before their children are named and blessed. While preserving the sacred nature of the blessing, leaders should make every reasonable to avoid embarrassment or offense to individuals or families.
"Moving beyond apologist persuasion, LDS polemicists furiously (and often fraudulently) attack any non-traditional view of Mormonism. They don't mince words -- they mince the truth."
-- Mike Quinn, writing of the FARMSboys, in "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View," p. x (Rev. ed. 1998)
Bazooka wrote:Jack, what are your plans in terms of your soon to be offspring's blessing?
It's my husband's business as I'm not LDS. However, we had dinner with the 2nd counselor in the bishopric and his family a few weeks ago, and I did suggest that we might like to have the baby's blessing in our own home so that Paul's parents in Hawaii can Skype it. Paul would like that better as well since he kind of gets stage fright about giving blessings, and would rather be doing it in front of a small group of people rather than in front of the entire ward. The 2nd counselor seemed amicable to the idea.
I have no plans to push for me to be holding the baby during the blessing. If I were LDS I might do that, but as a non-member, I don't feel that's my place. If I were invited to do so though, I certainly wouldn't say no.
We'll be doing a dedication ceremony at my own church as well, probably during the service. I haven't talked that over with my pastor yet.
"It seems to me that these women were the head (κεφάλαιον) of the church which was at Philippi." ~ John Chrysostom, Homilies on Philippians 13