An overtime question

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_krose
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Re: An overtime question

Post by _krose »

Brad Hudson wrote:Here's the problem: you are taking an infrequent example of unfairness -- an individual who works overtime and happens to cross a tax bracket...

I think "infrequent" is too mild a word to describe this outcome. This exact scenario is probably so rare that it actually plays out next to never in real life. Here's everything that would have to come together for this scenario:

1. An employee would have to be paid hourly instead of being salaried.
2. The employee must be offered overtime work by his/her employer.
3. He/she must be making an amount right at or just under a bracket boundary (17850, 72500, 146400, 223050, 398350, and 450000 for married filing jointly) before any overtime work and after all deductions and exemptions.

Even with all these lining up perfectly, the actual dollar impact is pretty minimal. Let's take the bracket boundary with the biggest jump and do the numbers. Say we have a married hourly worker whose taxable income is $75500 for this year, but would have been $72500 if he had not worked any overtime. This puts him into the next tax bracket by $3000. All of his overtime earnings will be taxed at the higher rate.

His tax liability is as follows:
$1785 on the first $17850 (10% bracket portion)
$8198 on the next $54650 (15% bracket portion)
$750 on the final $3000 (25% bracket portion)
--------
$10733 total tax due

If he had not jumped into the next bracket, his tax would have been $10433. The end result of overlapping into the next tax bracket is an increased tax of $300 on his adjusted income of $75500. That amounts to 8 1/2 hours worth of take-home income for this person.

I would find it strange if paying $300 additional tax on an additional $3000 (after exemptions) created a real disincentive to not work overtime.
"The DNA of fictional populations appears to be the most susceptible to extinction." - Simon Southerton
_krose
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Re: An overtime question

Post by _krose »

More details...

For the couple in my above scenario, his taxable income of $72,500 would translate to a gross income of $104,700 (assuming for simplicity that they take the standard deduction instead of itemizing, and the spouse has no income). Their tax due amount of $10,433 means they end up paying 9.965% of his gross income in federal taxes.

After factoring in his overtime earnings, the new total tax bill of $10,733 now amounts to a whopping 9.966% of his higher $107,700 gross income. That's in spite of the fact that every dollar of his overtime pay is in the next higher tax bracket.

If a 0.001% increase in tax liability is enough of a disincentive for someone to work more, I don't even know what to say about them.
"The DNA of fictional populations appears to be the most susceptible to extinction." - Simon Southerton
_ajax18
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Re: An overtime question

Post by _ajax18 »

Suppose your 40hr/week gross pay is $113k/year. But if you work 50hr/wk, you'd gross $135k/year. Assuming state taxes at the current rate in your home state Krose, how much does the net income actually change after taxes?
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
_krose
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Re: An overtime question

Post by _krose »

ajax18 wrote:Assuming state taxes at the current rate in your home state Krose, how much does the net income actually change after taxes?

Not sure why you would want to introduce state taxes into the equation. State tax policies are all over the map. My state has a flat rate, a straight percentage of income. Some have none at all.
"The DNA of fictional populations appears to be the most susceptible to extinction." - Simon Southerton
_ajax18
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Re: An overtime question

Post by _ajax18 »

Not sure why you would want to introduce state taxes into the equation. State tax policies are all over the map. My state has a flat rate, a straight percentage of income. Some have none at all.


Just wondered if you knew. Could you do it just with federal taxes?
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
_krose
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Re: An overtime question

Post by _krose »

ajax18 wrote:Suppose your 40hr/week gross pay is $113k/year. But if you work 50hr/wk, you'd gross $135k/year.

Now you're talking about a serious disincentive, although it has nothing to do with taxes.

This person makes $54.33 per hour normally, but only gets $42.31 per hour for overtime work. I would say a $12 per hour pay cut is an undeniable disincentive to work overtime. That's not good.
"The DNA of fictional populations appears to be the most susceptible to extinction." - Simon Southerton
_krose
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Re: An overtime question

Post by _krose »

ajax18 wrote:Just wondered if you knew. Could you do it just with federal taxes?

Sure. I've got a few minutes to figure it, using my previous assumptions of no additional income (interest, etc.) and married filing jointly. These are the rates and brackets for 2013:

MFJ:
10% on taxable income from $0 to $17,850, plus
15% on taxable income over $17,850 to $72,500, plus
25% on taxable income over $72,500 to $146,400, plus
28% on taxable income over $146,400 to $223,050, plus
33% on taxable income over $223,050 to $398,350, plus
35% on taxable income over $398,350 to $450,000, plus
39.6% on taxable income over $450,000

So, again assuming two regular exemptions (no kids or elderly) and no itemizing, the taxable incomes would be the gross numbers reduced by $32.2K, or $80.8K and $102.8K respectively. Both income amounts fall in the same brackets.

Taxable income = $80,800:
$1,785 on the first $17,850
$8,198 on the next $54,650
$6,538 on the final $26,150
--------
$16,519 total tax (20% effective rate)

Taxable income = $102,800:
$1,785 on the first $17,850
$8,198 on the next $54,650
$12,038 on the final $48,150
--------
$22,021 total tax (21% effective rate)

So this person would pay about $5,500 additional on the extra $22,000.
"The DNA of fictional populations appears to be the most susceptible to extinction." - Simon Southerton
_ajax18
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Re: An overtime question

Post by _ajax18 »

I think my frustration can best be described in this Dilbert comic.

http://www.dilbert.com/2013-04-06/
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
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