Word of Wisdom - the wheat problem....

[_Bazooka]

7up, do you agree with this:

If you do not agree with how the modern Church does not allow the consumption of meat except in times of cold, winter or famine, and the current teaching of the church is against it, then you should not pretend to be a faithful adherent to the modern Church.

The original word of Wisdom was the the will of the Lord for people in the mid 1800s, which may not be the same for us now. (Just like we no longer adhere to the dietary laws in the law of Moses)

If the Lord wills it that the guidelines be changed for a changing society, it will not be done through some random member, it will be done through the leadership. As the times have changed since the mid 1800's, this has occurred in the history of the church (guidelines have changed).

[_seven7up]

7up, do you agree with this: (where Bazooka changed the bold from alcholic beverages to what is seen below)

If you do not agree with how the modern Church does not allow the consumption of meat except in times of cold, winter or famine, and the current teaching of the church is against it, then you should not pretend to be a faithful adherent to the modern Church.

The original word of Wisdom was the the will of the Lord for people in the mid 1800s, which may not be the same for us now. (Just like we no longer adhere to the dietary laws in the law of Moses)

If the Lord wills it that the guidelines be changed for a changing society, it will not be done through some random member, it will be done through the leadership. As the times have changed since the mid 1800's, this has occurred in the history of the church (guidelines have changed).

The modern church does not have a ban on meat, except times of cold, winter or famine. I am 33 years old, and I converted to the church when I was 21. While I have heard members opine that we should try not to eat too much meat, and I have tried to reduce my consumption (especially red meat), I really have not seen much emphasis on that part from the church leadership. Likewise, if I were to start making wine in my basement, I think that would still be frowned upon by church leadership.

So, clearly the guidelines have changed from when the WoW was originally given. More emphasis has been placed on abstaining from tobacco, drugs, and alcohol. Coffee is still on the list and tea, well ... I have even seen life-long members drink herbal tea. I really don't have a problem with the changes, as they all seem quite reasonable based on the society in which we live.

-7up

[Guest]

This thread is so awesome. Here we have a poster, Waterdog, who despite his years, (at least as he represents them to the board), openly defends the Church, cites multiple spiritual experiences as absolute proof that the Mormon church is true, condemning critics left and right. etc.

When the Word of Wisdom comes up, he totally goes off the reservation by stating his opinion about the WOW and completely torpedoing every microgram of credibility he had managed to build up. He's grown incredulous that any critic would dare say anything about his opinion regarding consuming alcohol or tea, (by the way Utah beer, as sold in grocery stores is 2.8% by volume). He claims he is spreading the 'gospel of Japanese cuisine' to other members. And further asserts that his ecclesiastical leaders support him 100%.

The church is in trouble my friends. If folks like waterdog are the future voice of the church, watch out.

And Waterdog, I would wager everything I own, my businesses, homes, vehicles, etc. that if you were to ask Bednar if your interpretation of the WOW was accurate, he would 'lovingly' tell you to repent because you're way off base.

[_No Mas Mentiras]

Seriously, I was 36 years old when I lost my faith in Mormonism, and Water Dog wants to tell me it's A-OK for a Mormon to receive a temple recommend while drinking alcoholic beverages, merely by staring down the bishop and SP and lying about it? That's b***s***, and some of us will call him on it

I agree 100%. Of course, because the church and the WOW are man-made constructs anyway. it is like arguing who was the more impressive billionaire superhero, Ironman or Batman.

[_Bazooka]

7up, do you agree with this: (where Bazooka changed the bold from alcholic beverages to what is seen below)

If you do not agree with how the modern Church does not allow the consumption of meat except in times of cold, winter or famine, and the current teaching of the church is against it, then you should not pretend to be a faithful adherent to the modern Church.

The original word of Wisdom was the the will of the Lord for people in the mid 1800s, which may not be the same for us now. (Just like we no longer adhere to the dietary laws in the law of Moses)

If the Lord wills it that the guidelines be changed for a changing society, it will not be done through some random member, it will be done through the leadership. As the times have changed since the mid 1800's, this has occurred in the history of the church (guidelines have changed).

The modern church does not have a ban on meat, except times of cold, winter or famine. I am 33 years old, and I converted to the church when I was 21. While I have heard members opine that we should try not to eat too much meat, and I have tried to reduce my consumption (especially red meat), I really have not seen much emphasis on that part from the church leadership. Likewise, if I were to start making wine in my basement, I think that would still be frowned upon by church leadership.

So, clearly the guidelines have changed from when the WoW was originally given. More emphasis has been placed on abstaining from tobacco, drugs, and alcohol. Coffee is still on the list and tea, well ... I have even seen life-long members drink herbal tea. I really don't have a problem with the changes, as they all seem quite reasonable based on the society in which we live.

-7up

The modern Church absolutely does have a ban on eating meat except in times of cold, winter and famine.
It is in the exact same scriptural section as the ban on strong drink.
It is doctrine.

12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;

13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

Let's see if you can find anywhere that the Church (not the opinions of local members) has officially disavowed or clarified this part to mean that members can eat meat whenever they want....

[_Chap]

Why do you guys insist on being such punks? We now live in a time where we have refrigerators. Meat can be safely kept in times other than just the winter. Or if this makes you go into brain freeze, we could say it's winter year round in the ice box. The scripture doesn't specify natural or artificial winter. You don't understand the scriptures though because you've got the wrong glasses on. But of course you know that. You were members, and obviously LDS TBM's aren't taking the literalist meaning that you are, you're just here to nuisance troll.

But, as Bazooka said:

12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;

13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

Let's see if you can find anywhere that the Church (not the opinions of local members) has officially disavowed or clarified this part to mean that members can eat meat whenever they want....

Funny that Water Dog can't answer the question in bold ... the church clarified about the meaning of 'hot drinks', and about coke, but it never says 'Members may nowadays eat as much meat as they want, since conditions have changed since the Wow was revealed'.

Why not?

[_ludwigm]

Meat can be safely kept in times other than just the winter.

As far as I know, the Wow is not about keeping/storing the meat.

We now live in a time where we have refrigerators.

And in a time where we have power-cuts.

You don't understand the scriptures though because you've got the wrong glasses on.

Fortunately, here we have you to explain everything.

Why do you guys insist on being such punks? ... you're just here to nuisance troll.

There is a Hungarian saying:
"Bagoly mondja verébnek, hogy nagyfejű."
The owl tells the sparrow that her head is big.

You know, interestingly the scriptures also say vegetarians are apostates.
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testam ... ang=eng#17

18 And whoso aforbiddeth to babstain from cmeats, that man should not eat the same, is not ordained of God;
19 For, behold, the abeasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and that which cometh of the earth, is bordained for the use of man for food and for craiment, and that he might have in abundance.

1. This contradicts with D&C 89. Something habitual for "scriptures".
2. aforbiddeth-babstain-cmeats-abeasts-bordained-craiment ... next time you cut and paste from there, please use the "Hide Footnotes" switch. In that case, at least your quotes will be readable.

[_Tator]

Why do you guys insist on being such punks? We now live in a time where we have refrigerators. Meat can be safely kept in times other than just the winter. Or if this makes you go into brain freeze, we could say it's winter year round in the ice box. The scripture doesn't specify natural or artificial winter. You don't understand the scriptures though because you've got the wrong glasses on. But of course you know that. You were members, and obviously LDS TBM's aren't taking the literalist meaning that you are, you're just here to nuisance troll.

H2Ocanine you have just offered more explanation than any prophet ever has on the subject of meat and the wow...... are you a prophet? or do you at least have divine spectacles?

[_Maksutov]

Why do you guys insist on being such punks? We now live in a time where we have refrigerators. Meat can be safely kept in times other than just the winter. Or if this makes you go into brain freeze, we could say it's winter year round in the ice box. The scripture doesn't specify natural or artificial winter. You don't understand the scriptures though because you've got the wrong glasses on. But of course you know that. You were members, and obviously LDS TBM's aren't taking the literalist meaning that you are, you're just here to nuisance troll.

H2Ocanine you have just offered more explanation than any prophet ever has on the subject of meat and the wow...... are you a prophet? or do you at least have divine spectacles?

He's here as a provocateur, a troll. He is pretty amusing, though. I still get a giggle out of his "wildly unique" Book of Mormon claims. That was him, right? Poor whining pup needs attention.

[_No Mas Mentiras]

He's here as a provocateur, a troll. He is pretty amusing, though. I still get a giggle out of his "wildly unique" Book of Mormon claims. That was him, right? Poor whining pup needs attention

I am still shocked at the WOW claims made by this recently revealed New Order Mormon. I everything not expressly spelled out in the scriptures is the way to go, I might reconsider my decisions to leave.

The sky's the limit.