Many Ukrainians want Russia to Invade

[_Kevin Graham]

You know, to be perfectly honest I haven't kept up with the political situations in either Russia or the Ukraine since the U.S.S.R fell. But the day after the "invasion" I read some articles which suggested to me that this isn't exactly the kind of "invasion" that's being envisioned here in the West. First of all, it wasn't so long ago that both of these nations operated under the same flag. Secondly, I read that the area in which Russia invaded, the peninsula of Crimea, is mostly pro-Russian, suggesting their invasion" was perhaps invited. Then I read that the Prime Minister of Crimea said Russian troops were there at his behest, and they responded to only his command. So then I asked myself, I wonder how many Ukrainians are really complaining about this invasion. So after three seconds of googling I came across this from Time magazine:

Many Ukrainians Want Russia to Invade



WTF?

Did Sarah Palin predict this as well?

[_ludwigm]

... I read that the area in which Russia invaded, the peninsula of Crimea, is mostly pro-Russian, suggesting their invasion" was perhaps invited. Then I read that the Prime Minister of Crimea said Russian troops were there at his behest, and they responded to only his command. So then I asked myself, I wonder how many Ukrainians are really complaining about this invasion.

"how many Ukrainians are really complaining"
Or how many Tatars of Crimea...

In the Soviet Union (1917–1991)
During Stalin's Great Purge, statesmen and intellectuals such as Veli Ibraimov and Bekir Çoban-zade (1893–1937), were imprisoned or executed on various charges.
Soviet policies on the peninsula led to widespread starvation in 1921. Food was confiscated for shipment to central Russia, while more than 100,000 Tatars starved to death, and tens of thousands fled to Turkey or Romania. Thousands more were deported or slaughtered during the collectivization in 1928–29. The government campaign led to another famine in 1931–33. No other Soviet nationality suffered the decline imposed on the Crimean Tatars; between 1917 and 1933 half the Crimean Tatar population had been killed or deported.
During World War II, the entire Crimean Tatar population in Crimea fell victim to Soviet policies. Although a great number of Crimean Tatar men served in the Red Army and took part in the partisan movement in Crimea during the war, the existence of the Tatar Legion in the Nazi army and the collaboration of Crimean Tatar religious and political leaders with Hitler during the German occupation of Crimea provided the Soviets with a pretext for accusing the whole Crimean Tatar population of being Nazi collaborators.

Sürgünlik (Crimean Tatar for "exile") refers to the state-organized forcible deportation of the Crimean Tatars in 1944 to the Uzbek SSR and other parts of the Soviet Union. A symbol of Sürgünlik is a steam engine.
The projects of expelling the Crimean Tatars from the Crimea emerged several times in Russian ruling circles long before the Crimea was annexed by Russia in 1783 though they were never implemented In 1944, under the false pretext of alleged collaboration between the Crimean Tatars and the Nazis during the Nazi occupation of the Crimea in 1941–1944, the Soviet government evicted the Crimean Tatar people from the Crimea on orders of Joseph Stalin and Lavrentiy Beria.
The deportation began on 18 May 1944 in all Crimean inhabited localities. More than 32,000 NKVD troops participated in this action. The forced deportees were given only 30 minutes to gather personal belongings, after which they were loaded onto cattle trains and moved out of Crimea. 193,865 Crimean Tatars were deported, 151,136 of them to Uzbek SSR, 8,597 to Mari ASSR, 4,286 to Kazakh SSR, the rest 29,846 to the various oblasts of Russian SFSR. At the same moment, most of the Crimean Tatar men who were fighting in the ranks of the Red Army were demobilized and sent into forced labor camps in Siberia and in the Ural mountain region
The deportation was poorly planned and executed, local authorities in the destination areas were not properly informed about the scale of the matter and did not receive enough resources to accommodate the deportees. The lack of accommodation and food, the failure to adapt to new climatic conditions and the rapid spread of diseases had a heavy demographic impact during the first years of exile
From May to November 10,105 Crimean Tatars died of starvation in Uzbekistan (7% of deported to Uzbek SSR) . Nearly 30,000 (20%) died in exile during the year and a half by the NKVD data.[citation needed] Due to hunger, thirst and disease, around 45% of the total population died in the process of deportation According to Soviet dissident information, many Crimean Tatars were made to work in the large-scale projects conducted by the Soviet GULAG system. The Crimean Tatar activists tried to evaluate the demographic consequences of the deportation. They carried out a census in all the scattered Tatar communities in the middle of the 1960s. The results of this inquiry show that 109,956 (46.2%) Crimean Tatars of the 238,500 deportees died between July 1, 1944 and January 1, 1947
Crimean activists call for the recognition of the Sürgünlik as genocide.

[_MeDotOrg]

Kevin, you're correct in pointing out that Crimea has a majority of ethnic Russians, but ludwigm is spot-on in describing the 'ethnic cleansing' that made it that way.

Khrushchev ceded Crimea to the Ukraine in 1954, but I don't think he was anticipating the breakup of the Soviet Union at the time. (Khrushchev was Ukrainian himself).

In 1994, in exchange for giving up the 3rd largest stockpile of nuclear weapons in the world, the Ukraine's territorial integrity was affirmed by the signatories of the Budapest Accord, which says in part:

The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.

...so Russia has directly violated that accord.

[_Dr. Shades]

ludwigm:

What is the website from which you copied-and-pasted that text?

[_ludwigm]

ludwigm:

What is the website from which you copied-and-pasted that text?

Crimean Tatars . and . Deportation of the Crimean Tatars
.
I could describe that things by my words - it were less precise.
Those were known by us, Hungarians --- and by every member of Warsaw Pact. Things perilous to talk about then.

wikipedia produces the correct description --- as far as I know.

This type of genocide has happened with my, and my wife's family.
WE know what Musa Dagh or Mauthausen were.

[_Quasimodo]

I could describe that things by my words - it were less precise.
Those were known by us, Hungarians --- and by every member of Warsaw Pact. Things perilous to talk about then.

wikipedia produces the correct description --- as far as I know.

This type of genocide has happened with my, and my wife's family.
WE know what Musa Dagh or Mauthausen were.

I'm very sorry to hear that, ludwigm. We, in the US, have little concept of what that must mean.

If you feel like it, it might be good for you to explain what happened to the board members. Many here have no idea.

If it is something that you would rather not talk about, I completely understand.

[_Bazooka]

Kevin, you're correct in pointing out that Crimea has a majority of ethnic Russians, but ludwigm is spot-on in describing the 'ethnic cleansing' that made it that way.

Khrushchev ceded Crimea to the Ukraine in 1954, but I don't think he was anticipating the breakup of the Soviet Union at the time. (Khrushchev was Ukrainian himself).

In 1994, in exchange for giving up the 3rd largest stockpile of nuclear weapons in the world, the Ukraine's territorial integrity was affirmed by the signatories of the Budapest Accord, which says in part:

The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.

...so Russia has directly violated that accord.

I suspect the Russians will argue they are acting to protect the territorial integrity and political independence of Ukraine.

[_subgenius]

You know, to be perfectly honest I haven't kept up with the political situations in either Russia or the Ukraine since the U.S.S.R fell. But the day after the "invasion" I read some articles which suggested to me that this isn't exactly the kind of "invasion" that's being envisioned here in the West. First of all, it wasn't so long ago that both of these nations operated under the same flag. Secondly, I read that the area in which Russia invaded, the peninsula of Crimea, is mostly pro-Russian, suggesting their invasion" was perhaps invited. Then I read that the Prime Minister of Crimea said Russian troops were there at his behest, and they responded to only his command. So then I asked myself, I wonder how many Ukrainians are really complaining about this invasion. So after three seconds of googling I came across this from Time magazine:

Many Ukrainians Want Russia to Invade



WTF?

Did Sarah Palin predict this as well?

Sooooo......Kerry is just an idiot then? (and by proxy - Obama is too?)
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/05/world ... .html?_r=0
"Kerry Takes Offer of Aid to Ukraine and Pushes Back at Russian Claims"