Daniel Peterson issues a challenge.....

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_Rollo Tomasi
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Re: Daniel Peterson issues a challenge.....

Post by _Rollo Tomasi »

Yahoo Bot wrote:
palerobber wrote:YahooBot, are you really equating someone being seen once holding hands with someone to having "made a public announcement" about ones sexual orientation?

i wish you wouldn't reinforce the stereotype that Mormons don't understand and respect personal boundaries. i'm willing to take your word for it that there was already gossip going around about Quinn before DCP began to engage in same, but what kind of defense is that for a christian to make? (1 Timothy 5:13)
No I am not. He told those there that he was coming out. He chose a public Mormon forum as the place where he wanted to come out, where his friends all were.
Let me see if I am understanding you correctly, Bob. Are you saying that Quinn's "holding hands with his mate" at a MHA conference in 1980 or 1981 (to which, apparently, you were the ONLY witness) was Quinn's way of telling "those there that he was coming out"? And that Quinn intentionally "chose a public Mormon forum," such as the MHA conference, to do this? How "public" could it have been if you are the ONLY person to have ever claimed to have seen Quinn holding hands there. And, according to Quinn himself, he did NOT 'come out' until at least 15 years later, in 1996 when his Same Sex Dynamics book was published.

Bob, your story makes NO sense.
"Moving beyond apologist persuasion, LDS polemicists furiously (and often fraudulently) attack any non-traditional view of Mormonism. They don't mince words -- they mince the truth."

-- Mike Quinn, writing of the FARMSboys, in "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View," p. x (Rev. ed. 1998)
_palerobber
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Re: Daniel Peterson issues a challenge.....

Post by _palerobber »

let's not forget that even if YB's story is true, or true in some sense, that doesn't make what Daniel C. Peterson did smell any better.

take for example, Michael Sam was out to close friends before he felt ready to be out to teammates, and out to teammates before he felt ready to be out to his father. i've known people who shared such information with me, but weren't yet comfortable sharing it with parents, pastors, or employers they thought might react negatively or even do them harm. so even if Quinn did share this information at the time and place YB claims when "his friends were all there", many years before coming out to the world, it would be disrepectful, unchristian, and borderline unethical for Daniel C. Peterson to share such such priviledged information with an LDS leader.

wouldn't you agree, YB?
_Jesse Pinkman
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Re: Daniel Peterson issues a challenge.....

Post by _Jesse Pinkman »

Since Dan's supposedly "outting" Quinn has been mentioned, I think that this might be of interest. What follows is a quote from the thread that Rollo brought up earlier, and Shades' commentary:

Dr. Shades wrote:Hello folks,

Daniel Peterson saw one of my posts within the An Anniversary: Revisiting a Mopologetic Milestone thread and responded to it (and me) via e-mail. We went back and forth a couple of times, and I convinced him to allow me to post a portion of our exchanges since I believe it contains very relevant information. In the following copy-&-paste, I've omitted portions that were about other topics. ALL BOLD EMPASIS IS MINE, NOT HIS:


Daniel C. Peterson wrote:[SNIP!] I’ve just noticed your attempt to sum up the alleged anti-Quinn gossipmongering campaign in which I and others were supposedly engaged:

Dr. Shades wrote:“Judging by what you and Mister Scratch have said, let's see if this is the most likely scenario:

A) Rumors of Quinn's bisexuality swirled among the apologetic intelligentsia for X amount of time. B) It remains unclear who started them or how they began. C) When it was discovered that Quinn had moved back to Utah, one of them jumped at the opportunity to tell Quinn's stake president about it for punitive reasons.

Does that sound about right?


No. It’s crucially wrong at points A and C, though B is accurate.

A. Mike Quinn’s sexual orientation was widely known among people involved in Mormon studies (not merely, or even primarily, among “apologists” or faithful Church members) for many years prior to his official “coming out” in 1996. My impression is that just about everybody seriously involved with Sunstone and the Mormon History Association, for example, seems to have been aware of it. I suspect this to be the case because, when he finally announced his homosexuality, I heard not a single exclamation of surprise. Not one. Precisely how the news got around or how his homosexuality came to be recognized I could not begin to say. As I’ve noted before, I first heard that Quinn was gay when, with Todd Compton, sometime (I believe) between 1982 and 1985, I was visiting in the home of a person in southern California (where I then lived) who would be widely recognized as more sympathetic to Quinn’s theological and historical views than, say, to Bruce McConkie’s. This man was astonished that Todd and I were unaware of something that he thought was universally known. As it turns out, Quinn’s homosexuality truly was just about universally known in (believing and unbelieving) Mormon studies circles, and Todd and I were simply among the last to hear about it. (In my case, the explanation may reside in the fact that I had been living in the Middle East essentially from the end of 1977 to the middle of 1982.) Neither Todd Compton nor the man who told us about Quinn would typically be counted among the “apologist community.”

C. Unless I’m much mistaken, Quinn’s stake president had never met Quinn when my friend spoke with him, but he was already well aware of Quinn’s sexual orientation. (And, frankly, of more than merely his orientation. A sad incident within his stake had brought the matter very painfully to the stake president’s attention.) And I don’t believe that it was my friend who raised the issue of Quinn’s homosexuality, nor even of Quinn in general. As I recall, it was the stake president, an old friend of his, who broached the subject. The visit was not about Quinn, but was simply an encounter between two long-time friends, and the topic of Mike Quinn emerged in passing.

[SNIP!] In the small and close-knit community of people involved in Mormon history or Mormon studies, a community containing both faithful believers and dissidents, there’s a lot of informal conversation. That’s how human communities work. It would have been astonishing had Quinn’s sexual orientation not surfaced in some of those chats. But that’s all there ever was. There was no rumor-mongering crusade, and I certainly wasn’t involved in one. I would guess that the subject of Quinn’s homosexuality came up in conversations in which I was involved on maybe half a dozen occasions between the time I first heard of it and his formal “coming out.” I don’t recall ever, not even once, initiating the discussion, and I don’t believe that any of those instances went much beyond mere mention of the fact.

It’s deeply ironic for me to be accused as the impresario of a conspiracy to besmirch Mike Quinn, because, although I knew about his sexual orientation for 11-14 years before he openly acknowledged it, I consciously chose never to write or publish anything at all referring to it. I sat on it, quietly.

I’ve said this repeatedly. I can’t think of any clearer way than what I’ve already said to state that I was involved in no smear campaign against Mike Quinn and that, in fact, so far as I know, there was no smear campaign against Mike Quinn. [SNIP!]

Best wishes,

Dan Peterson

P.S. On reflection, 1982-1985 seems a bit early to me for my having heard about Quinn’s homosexuality, though I can’t rule it out. Perhaps the conversation occurred during a subsequent visit to California (which I typically visit quite often, because I grew up there and still have family there). So that would mean that I may have known of Quinn’s sexual orientation for as little as, say, only around five years before he came out of the closet. But no less. For various reasons, I think it cannot have been any later than the beginning of the 1990s when I was told of Quinn’s being gay by a very liberal figure in the Mormon studies community, in company with another very liberal member of that community.


Shades wrote:MY COMMENTARY:

For my part, this sounds wholly believable to me. Let's face it, if we attempt to incriminate DCP for "gossipmongering," apparently we'll have to incriminate the entire Mormon Studies community.

I also believe in the concept of "innocent until proven guilty," and since DCP was obviously an eyewitness to all this, I see no reason not to take his explanation at face value.
So you're chasing around a fly and in your world, I'm the idiot?

"Friends don't let friends be Mormon." Sock Puppet, MDB.

Music is my drug of choice.

"And that is precisely why none of us apologize for holding it to the celestial standard it pretends that it possesses." Kerry, MDB
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_informant
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Re: Daniel Peterson issues a challenge.....

Post by _informant »

so no evidence..........not a single link to anything except speculation and conjecture.......

typical
University education is increasingly a scam that is nowhere near cost justified. - Gadianton, dean of Cassius university link
_Rollo Tomasi
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So this doesn't get lost in the part sent to Telestial ...

Post by _Rollo Tomasi »

Since a massive portion of this thread has been excised and sent down to Telestial, I am reposting the following link, which contains a post by Scratch summarizing (with original posts by DCP on the old FAIR bb) the "gossipmongering" controversy in 2006:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5764
"Moving beyond apologist persuasion, LDS polemicists furiously (and often fraudulently) attack any non-traditional view of Mormonism. They don't mince words -- they mince the truth."

-- Mike Quinn, writing of the FARMSboys, in "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View," p. x (Rev. ed. 1998)
_informant
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Re: So this doesn't get lost in the part sent to Telestial .

Post by _informant »

Rollo Tomasi wrote:Since a massive portion of this thread has been excised and sent down to Telestial, I am reposting the following link, which contains a post by Scratch summarizing (with original posts by DCP on the old FAIR bb) the "gossipmongering" controversy in 2006:

http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/vie ... f=3&t=5764



which have no links to anything..........just speculation and conjecture...........just quoting (supposedly) without linking to any source

i can do that too

elvis wrote:im alive guys
University education is increasingly a scam that is nowhere near cost justified. - Gadianton, dean of Cassius university link
_Rollo Tomasi
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Re: Daniel Peterson issues a challenge.....

Post by _Rollo Tomasi »

informant wrote:so no evidence..........not a single link to anything except speculation and conjecture.......

typical
Read the stuff I linked above, gonad. It is to a post by Scratch which contains many of DCP's original posts at the old FAIR board in 2006 on this subject.
"Moving beyond apologist persuasion, LDS polemicists furiously (and often fraudulently) attack any non-traditional view of Mormonism. They don't mince words -- they mince the truth."

-- Mike Quinn, writing of the FARMSboys, in "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View," p. x (Rev. ed. 1998)
_Rollo Tomasi
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Re: So this doesn't get lost in the part sent to Telestial .

Post by _Rollo Tomasi »

informant wrote:
Rollo Tomasi wrote:Since a massive portion of this thread has been excised and sent down to Telestial, I am reposting the following link, which contains a post by Scratch summarizing (with original posts by DCP on the old FAIR bb) the "gossipmongering" controversy in 2006:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5764
which have no links to anything..........just speculation and conjecture...........just quoting (supposedly) without linking to any source

i can do that too

elvis wrote:im alive guys
You're an idiot. Are you now claiming that the Scratch post I linked above contains made-up or false postings attributed to DCP?
"Moving beyond apologist persuasion, LDS polemicists furiously (and often fraudulently) attack any non-traditional view of Mormonism. They don't mince words -- they mince the truth."

-- Mike Quinn, writing of the FARMSboys, in "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View," p. x (Rev. ed. 1998)
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