EAllusion wrote:Heh. I was going to compare Christianity to an ancient Egyptian resurrection cult and some really esoteric faith centered on a central charismatic leader, but couldn't quite nail down what I wanted to go with.
Definitely a John Frum cargo cult.
So, how about you, mak. Where do you stand on the resurrection of Christ?
Servant wrote:And you don't believe that there is a sub-cult of higher textual criticism in the main Mormon Church? And save your demeaning rhetoric for CARM, will you.
What do you think about New Order Mormons? Do you relate to them?
You're glossing over my concerns. Please address them.
Lucy Harris wrote:So far as I am concerned, it illustrates the imperfection of human beings. People who know and accept this will someday laugh at all ad hominem attacks.
Fortunately, we have the exceptions. Prophets, seers and revelators. Mouthpieces of god.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
That's not true at all. You constantly pretend to lecture me about rudimentary aspects of biblical criticism that you don't even adequately understand yourself.
Servant wrote:However, it's quite obvious that Church history is not your academic acme.
No, it's obvious that fundie church history is not my thing, but that's because it's not a legitimate field. You don't know what critical church history looks like, so you mistake it for misunderstanding.
Servant wrote:I suggest you take a few courses outside of the Mormon schools.
You know I have more degrees from non-Mormon schools than from Mormon schools, Catherine, and you know that my education vis-à-vis the Bible and early Judaism and Christianity far outshines yours. Why this asinine and dishonest rhetoric?
EAllusion wrote:At first, I was thinking, "How on earth did Servent get to Hindus?" Then, I think I got it. Hindus are polytheists, which Servent feels Mormons are. But then, Muslims are rabidly anti-polytheist to the point that they view Christianity as a form of polytheism. The rejection of polytheism is as core of a teaching in Islam as salvation through Jesus Christ is in Christianity. So, I'm still trying to figure out where the Islam part came in. I suspect it probably has something to do with the birth of Islam's and the Koran's relationship to Judeo-Christian religion in the Middle East, but I'm not sure.
Mormonism is basically a branch of Methodism that got weird. Well, weird in a different way.
Great point about Islam, EA. Servant's reasoning is probably more along the lines of equating words that have shock value in Christian culture than anything else. When you start going down the path with these kinds of Christians, you're not going down the path of argument so much as the path of the Christian positing their prejudices at the moment as God's word carved in granite. They may start out with big words to sanctify the Christian God from impure faith traditions but it doesn't end there, in my experience. All it takes is an argument between fellow lay ministers -- and let's face it, half of the born again Christian population consider themselves lay ministers -- over something as stupid as eternal security and they'll be damning each other as cults over that.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.
LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
That's not true at all. You constantly pretend to lecture me about rudimentary aspects of biblical criticism that you don't even adequately understand yourself.
Servant wrote:However, it's quite obvious that Church history is not your academic acme.
No, it's obvious that fundie church history is not my thing, but that's because it's not a legitimate field. You don't know what critical church history looks like, so you mistake it for misunderstanding.
Servant wrote:I suggest you take a few courses outside of the Mormon schools.
You know I have more degrees from non-Mormon schools than from Mormon schools, Catherine, and you know that my education vis-à-vis the Bible and early Judaism and Christianity far outshines yours. Why this asinine and dishonest rhetoric?
It is absolutely ludicrous to call the history of the Christian Church "fundie history." This is just an example of the fact that you are way over your head when it comes to things outside your scope of study.
EAllusion wrote:At first, I was thinking, "How on earth did Servent get to Hindus?" Then, I think I got it. Hindus are polytheists, which Servent feels Mormons are. But then, Muslims are rabidly anti-polytheist to the point that they view Christianity as a form of polytheism. The rejection of polytheism is as core of a teaching in Islam as salvation through Jesus Christ is in Christianity. So, I'm still trying to figure out where the Islam part came in. I suspect it probably has something to do with the birth of Islam's and the Koran's relationship to Judeo-Christian religion in the Middle East, but I'm not sure.
Mormonism is basically a branch of Methodism that got weird. Well, weird in a different way.
Great point about Islam, EA. Servant's reasoning is probably more along the lines of equating words that have shock value in Christian culture than anything else. When you start going down the path with these kinds of Christians, you're not going down the path of argument so much as the path of the Christian positing their prejudices at the moment as God's word carved in granite. They may start out with big words to sanctify the Christian God from impure faith traditions but it doesn't end there, in my experience. All it takes is an argument between fellow lay ministers -- and let's face it, half of the born again Christian population consider themselves lay ministers -- over something as stupid as eternal security and they'll be damning each other as cults over that.
That is just not true. Reformed theology coexists with Arminian views - we don't excommunicate each other. However, what about Mormons? They have more serous divisions, do they not? Do you "excommunicate" scholars who don't go down the line with the official version of Mormonism? Michael Quinn comes to mind.
EAllusion wrote:At first, I was thinking, "How on earth did Servent get to Hindus?" Then, I think I got it. Hindus are polytheists, which Servent feels Mormons are. But then, Muslims are rabidly anti-polytheist to the point that they view Christianity as a form of polytheism. The rejection of polytheism is as core of a teaching in Islam as salvation through Jesus Christ is in Christianity. So, I'm still trying to figure out where the Islam part came in. I suspect it probably has something to do with the birth of Islam's and the Koran's relationship to Judeo-Christian religion in the Middle East, but I'm not sure.
Mormonism is basically a branch of Methodism that got weird. Well, weird in a different way.
Hey, careful with that knowledge. You wouldn't want Servant to get educated at all.
Here is a good example of maklelan "stalking" me. I put up a thread, and he attempts to put me down by saying I don't want to get educated! I might say the same to him - why didn't he accept the challenge on CARM to debate where the Nephites lived? Not one of the brave Mormons would accept the debate challenge - they had a whole list of excuses as to why they wouldn't debate! Kind of funny! All these guys having the "priesthood powers" wouldn't debate, but one little Mormon woman tried to.
Lucy Harris wrote:So far as I am concerned, it illustrates the imperfection of human beings. People who know and accept this will someday laugh at all ad hominem attacks.
Fortunately, we have the exceptions. Prophets, seers and revelators. Mouthpieces of god.
Could you tell me why anybody would consider Monson a "prophet" of God?
Servant wrote: why didn't he accept the challenge on CARM to debate where the Nephites lived? Not one of the brave Mormons would accept the debate challenge - they had a whole list of excuses as to why they wouldn't debate! Kind of funny! [/b]
I'll do it!
You tell me where the thread is (or you can start a new one). Once I see it, I'll register at CARM and then it's Go Time!
Ceeboo is coming! Are you CARM Christians ready for that?
