Quick and Dishonest Baptism Tactics

[_No_Hidden_Agenda]

Many of us are familiar with the “baseball baptisms” program that took place in the wayback days in England. The basic program was to form a baseball league for kids, have a quick lesson and a baptism be a snuck in part of joining a team, and see a large influx of baptism numbers with virtually no retention. Most boys who were tricked into baptism had no idea they had joined a church and many claimed to have never even heard of Mormons when later found for ‘reactivation.’

Similar programs have happened in Central and South America with soccer leagues.

Japan had a surge in baptisms (I think in the early 90s) where the tactic was to quickly teach a willing listener everything within a few hours or days and dunk them. As with the baseball and soccer league baptisms, these people didn’t really know what had happened and were surprised to find out years later the church claimed them as members.

These programs are dishonest and disgusting. It’s a front to all good sense. It’s a terrible guilt burden to later lay at the feet of the local membership; a swollen inactives list to find, fellowship, and so forth. Just mean.

These quick-dunk programs don’t happen often in a coordinated, Mission President approved, institutionalized way (there are always rogue companionships doing something like them) and they have always led to problems such as clean-up work by the next MP and disheartened and untrusting local members. It burns an area out.

The Latter-Day Saint subreddit is currently discussing these types of programs, with contempt. It was initiated by the revelation that the Thailand Bangkok Mission is currently employing these fast, high-pressure, quick-dunk methods RIGHT NOW. There are a dozen public missionary blogs of currently-serving missionaries in Thailand trumpeting the tactics. http://np.reddit.com/r/latterdaysaints/ ... r_mission/

Among the reports are dozens of baptisms of people in one week or less of initial contact. Reports that two 45-minute lessons are enough to baptize a person before church. (Only two lessons that cover who is Jesus, what are the 10 commandments, the restoration, word of wisdom, law of chastity, the Book of Mormon, the entire gospel, and the plan of salvation.) The mission has jumped from less than 40 baptisms a month to over 200. Yet, scattered among every missionary blog are quick points lamenting “recent convert less actives” that they haven’t seen in the month since their baptism… Then they are transferred to a new area and it’s no one’s problem anymore. (You can read a ton of the missionary highlights on the Mormon subreddit. http://www.reddit.com/r/Mormon/comments ... be_damned/) or read it from the missionaries themselves at http://preparetoserve.com/thailand/lds-mission-blogs/.

One of the currently serving senior missionaries in Thailand announced that their tactics are being passed on to Taiwan, Phillipines, and Poland. So it is spreading.

What do you all think about these tactics? Should anything be done to stop them? In these days of instant and multifaceted near-real time interaction with missions around the world, should steps be taken to squelch these kinds of bad movements quickly?

[_Nevo]

There was a missionary on my mission that routinely posted 30 or more baptisms a month, sometimes teaching the discussions while the font was filling. But that was in South America ca. 1993. Standard procedure in those days was to teach a condensed 5-10 minute combined 1st and 2nd discussion in the street and conclude by challenging the person to attend church and be baptized that very Sunday. Our mission baptized 500-600 people a month using this technique. And then a few years later, Elder Holland was dispatched to the country to try to repair damage. I don't think any good comes from such tactics.

[_Mayan Elephant]

we used those tactics in switzerland and france 25 years ago. it works for baptizing people. it was a common method throughout europe at the time. it was the 80's and early 90's. you can see the spikes in baptisms throughout the world and in europe. candidates for these types of baptisms were sub-saharan africans that were living in hotels and red cross centers throughout switzerland and france. you could find and teach these potential members in every town, from the rich places like crans-montana to the rough parts of marseille. we had many baptisms of people that were found and taught in less than a week, and a few that were baptized after one day.

there were missionaries, myself included, that could give a memorized testimony in lingala. we could sing the traditional hymns in multiple african languages. we even had some success with north africans. at some point during my mission, around the time of the invasion of kuwait, albert choules toured the missions in europe and we were told to stop proselyting muslims and jews. the instructions about the jews happened much earlier than the instructions about the muslims. some missionaries spent most of their time with refugees and immigrants.

i think it is fairly obvious to everyone, in and out of the church, that the more one studies the less likely one is to participate in the church. finding people that are willing to spontaneously join the church is a hell of a lot easier than finding people that will study and learn about the church, and then commit. it is unfair to blame or fault the missionaries for doing this. it works. and it works very well. why should they care if it is a calamity that holland has to clean up in 10 years? they shouldn't.

[_The Mighty Builder]

These so called "Baseball" baptisms are perfectly fine. If you simply understand that whether in this life or the next EVERYONE will be baptized Mormon, the Mormon salespersons doing this obvious favor is just giving the newly Mormonized a head start over the dead people to be splashed.

Carry on Stripling Mormon Missionaries, baptize the gullible, uneducated, poor, unaware and every other sort of Mouth breather. After all the "Field (be it the baseball, soccer, football, etc.) is White (we even tolerate the off-white now) and Ready to Harvest".

Remember these forward thinking Mormon salespersons are only doing that which is needed to overcome the EVIL Google God, that waits to educate and inform the investigator and use truth and logic to thwart the power of the Holy Toaster.

[_son of Ishmael]

When I was on my mission in South America, I asked my Mission President about the problem with baptizing people after just a couple of lessons. Many times the first time they stepped in a church was to get baptized. His response was that maybe someday they will remember that they are members and want to get active. This problem is caused by the the church leadership. Baptizing lots of people is the only way to measure success in the mission field. Since we all know the church is true, if you are not baptizing lots of people you are simply not worthy (probably masturbating), so once again it is your fault. Our mission president made us read this awful book called "Tools for Missionaries" by Grant Von Harrison. It laid the guilt trip on as thick as it can get.

[_No_Hidden_Agenda]

When I was on my mission in South America, I asked my Mission President about the problem with baptizing people after just a couple of lessons. Many times the first time they stepped in a church was to get baptized. His response was that maybe someday they will remember that they are members and want to get active. This problem is caused by the the church leadership. Baptizing lots of people is the only way to measure success in the mission field. Since we all know the church is true, if you are not baptizing lots of people you are simply not worthy (probably masturbating), so once again it is your fault. Our mission president made us read this awful book called "Tools for Missionaries" by Grant Von Harrison. It laid the guilt trip on as thick as it can get.

And I feel bad for the locals left to clean up the records. They have branch lists of 600 people with 30 attending. They lose all trust for the missionaries and the only support they get from their up-channel in the Stake is "these are our brothers and sisters, you need to save them!"

[Guest]

Been there. Done that. Got the stamp on my dance card.

Worked in a "special zone" where we were authorized to teach all 6 discussions, interview, and baptize within about a 30 minute time frame. Branch building was across the street from a large bus stop. We would corale in around 20 people a night, enticing them with a movie and a message about Jesus "build you a rainbow" on a beep projector. 6 discussions in 20 minutes. High pressure baptismal challenge. Interview for those who accepted. Those with WOW problems were promised that baptism would cure them of their addictions, so WOW obedience was not prerequisite. Baptized over a hundred in a month.

This was the continuation during the Lemos era of a program that was almost universal to the mission under Pres. Bruno. His thinking was let the missionaries baptize everyone, and let the members retain/reactivate them. What this program did best was foster discord between the entrenched older members and the missionary program which they viewed as making a huge amount of clean up work for them.

The whole thing bothered me as I had a letter from the first presidency (given to us in the mtc to address situations such as this) saying investigators had to have attended church twice and met the bishop, received all 6 discussions at individual times, yada yada. I would get into fights with the zl, and was told it was authorized by the mp, and that I would be accountable to him at judgment day for not following his directive, however contradictory to the first presidency edict.

I thought about going home a few times as that did not fit well with how I figured the lord's work should operate. But I ended up just being the baptizer, dunking the candidates, and rationalizing my cog dis away by figuring that if they passed the interview any accountability to Jesus was on the interviewer's shoulder.

Son of Ishmael, were we in the same mission?;) I doubt it as this occured all over. I was initially under Pres. Bruno Schmeil.

[_son of Ishmael]

Been there. Done that. Got the medal.

Worked in a "special zone" where we were authorized to teach all 6 discussions, interview, and baptize within about a 30 minute time frame. Branch building was across the street from a large bus stop. We would corale in around 20 people a night, enticing them with a movie and a message about Jesus "build you a rainbow" on a beep projector. 6 discussions in 20 minutes. High pressure baptismal challenge. Interview for those who accepted. Those with WOW problems were promised that baptism would cure them of their addictions, so WOW obedience was not prerequisite.

The whole thing bothered me as I had a letter from the first presidency (given to us in the mtc to address situations such as this) saying investigators had to have attended church twice and met the bishop, received all 6 discussions at individula times, yada yada. I would get into fights with the zl, and was told it was authorized by the mp, and that I would be accountable to him at judgment day for not following his directive, however contradictory to the first presidency edict.

I thought about going home a few times as that did not fit well with how I figured the lord's work should operate. But I ended up just being the baptizer, dunking the candidates, and rationalizing my cog dis away by figuring that if they passed the interview any accountability to Jesus was on the interviewer's shoulder.

Son of Ishmael, were we in the same mission?;) I doubt it as this occured all over. I was initially under Pres. Bruno Schmeil.

I was in Argentina from 80-82.