Why Was Spirit so Strong at Phony/Fraudulent LDS Baptism

[_son of Ishmael]

Ok, Ok I said I was done and needed to take a break BUT…Gawd Damnit, Mormonism won’t let me escape its ugly grasp.

So I was listening to a podcast I just discovered hosted by two skeptics who test all kinds of so called truth claims so “we don’t have to” During one podcast series the hosts go through the entire Mormon Missionary conversion process, get baptized and confirmed and actually become members…and then tell their missionaries…"Oh by the way we were only kidding…we never bought any of it". To which the Elders said…”but the spirit was so strong at your baptism”.

So BC and Company…how exactly does the so called spirit confirm itself so strongly when those being baptized are doing so fraudulently? Does the spirit still confirm itself even when a fraud is taking palce? If so Why?

http://ohnopodcast.com/episodes/month/march-2011

Ok I'll crawl back under my rock...

Craig,

The answer to this is obvious. When they got baptized they truly did know the church was true deep down in their hearts but they just want to sin more than they want to live the gospel. They are both a couple of sinners and probably democrats to boot....

[_moksha]

Who exactly was feeling the spirit? Was it Craig or someone on the sound recording?

[_Polygamy-Porter]

The Spirit® is nothing more than a self induced emotional epiphany.

[_GR33N]

Ok, Ok I said I was done and needed to take a break BUT…Gawd Damnit, Mormonism won’t let me escape its ugly grasp.

So I was listening to a podcast I just discovered hosted by two skeptics who test all kinds of so called truth claims so “we don’t have to” During one podcast series the hosts go through the entire Mormon Missionary conversion process, get baptized and confirmed and actually become members…and then tell their missionaries…"Oh by the way we were only kidding…we never bought any of it". To which the Elders said…”but the spirit was so strong at your baptism”.

So BC and Company…how exactly does the so called spirit confirm itself so strongly when those being baptized are doing so fraudulently? Does the spirit still confirm itself even when a fraud is taking palce? If so Why?

http://ohnopodcast.com/episodes/month/march-2011

Ok I'll crawl back under my rock...

But you won't. One in your position rarely does.

[Guest]

But you won't. One in your position rarely does.

And what exactly is "your position" you refer to? You don't know me, you don't know my history, you nothing about me...so please stop making your sanctimonious assumptions by lumping me into your pigeonholed preconceived bias’s...they really make you come off as an asshole

[_bcspace]

So BC and Company…how exactly does the so called spirit confirm itself so strongly when those being baptized are doing so fraudulently? Does the spirit still confirm itself even when a fraud is taking palce? If so Why?

1. Many of the denizens here would ask if it wasn't perhaps "an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of underdone potato".
2. If you're sure it wasn't "an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of underdone potato", then what do you think it was?

Why can't the Spirit be present, even strongly, at such an event? Such an experience will work to their condemnation in the end.

Interesting who the liars really are in this example and self-admitted too.

[_malkie]

So BC and Company…how exactly does the so called spirit confirm itself so strongly when those being baptized are doing so fraudulently? Does the spirit still confirm itself even when a fraud is taking palce? If so Why?

1. Many of the denizens here would ask if it wasn't perhaps "an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of underdone potato".
2. If you're sure it wasn't "an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of underdone potato", then what do you think it was?

Why can't the Spirit be present, even strongly, at such an event? Such an experience will work to their condemnation in the end.

Interesting who the liars really are in this example and self-admitted too.

Because religion was being mocked, seriously, throughout the event. And we know that the "Spirit" is a woose who is apparently driven away by a teabag, or a glimpse of a female shoulder.

However, somehow this same "Spirit" was a constant companion to Paul H Dunn, and testified strongly to those who were listening to Elder Dunn's tall tales.

The "Spirit" is also expected to accompany people who are acting on the advice that "a testimony is found in the bearing of it".

[_Bazooka]

So BC and Company…how exactly does the so called spirit confirm itself so strongly when those being baptized are doing so fraudulently? Does the spirit still confirm itself even when a fraud is taking palce? If so Why?

1. Many of the denizens here would ask if it wasn't perhaps "an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of underdone potato".
2. If you're sure it wasn't "an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of underdone potato", then what do you think it was?

Why can't the Spirit be present, even strongly, at such an event? Such an experience will work to their condemnation in the end.

Interesting who the liars really are in this example and self-admitted too.

Bcspace, can you explain what "Heartsell" is?

[_suniluni2]

Why can't the Spirit be present, even strongly, at such an event?

Because the Spirit only testifies of truth, and what was happening was not true.

[_sunstoned]

Craig, I've related this tale before.
I was the organiser for a weekend Church event that culminated in a Sunday session at which we were honoured to have a General Authority as closing speaker. This was back in the day, so we are talking late seventies, early eighties. The closing speaker held the congregation enthralled with a very moving dialogue for which he had no prepared notes. People were talking for months afterwards about how strong the spirit was. There were lots of emotional tears and a spontaneous upstanding rendition of "We thank thee oh God for a Prophet". Who was this speaker who "moved" close on a thousand people to a spiritual confirmation of his words....Paul H. Dunn. I sat next to him through the whole meeting.

I experienced a very similar situation with Paul Dunn. He was touring our mission, and I was his driver for a time. He spoke in our Zone conference and gave one of his Sargent Isso stories from WW II. He was a well polished speaker, and he held the young missionaries, including me, spellbound throughout his talk. I felt the spirit stronger that day than anytime before.

Years later when Brother Dunn's deceptions were revealed, this whole experience became an eye opening experience for me. It confirmed that a persons feelings are subject to a whole range of emotions, including conformation bias.