Mark Levin Asks...

[_Kishkumen]

My point is that I believe that the higher approval rating for Clinton among Mormons could be due to the fact that he actually managed to push through many conservative policies that the bulk of conservative Mormons were on board with. Contrast that to the very liberal overall policies of President Obama and it is pretty obvious why the approval rating would be lower.

Very liberal overall policies? Like what, Mitt Romney's healthcare plan? Refraining from invading every troubled Islamic country in the Mediterranean Basin and Middle East? Respecting scientific opinion over the propaganda of oil companies?

Holy crap.

This is one of the substantive (as opposed to trumped up cable news nonsense) problems this country struggles with, our political spectrum has moved so far to the right that what was acceptable for a moderate Republican in the past is now decried as some kind of communist plot.

It is freaking unbelievable.

[_EAllusion]

\
If Mark Levin wants to know what an actual Marxist is, he should study Senator Bernie Sanders.

Bernie Sanders is a socialist. He isn't a Marxist. Obama is basically 90's moderate Republican, so the broader point is taken.

[_EAllusion]

Here is a map that is a pretty good indicator of racism as it relates to Obama voting demographics:



This is a measure of the relative shift in voting % from 2004 to 2008. In general, there was a massive shift towards Democrats in 2008 due to Iraq war fatigue and the recession. However, there is a near perfect correlation between the most racist areas of the United States and a shift away from Democratic candidate Obama. The racism is plainly there to see in pretty colors. You can actually trace notoriously racist Appalachia through the map.

(Arizona, while famous being being xenophobic, should be ignored due to the McCain effect. Likewise, discount Alaska due to Palin.)

Utah comes out pretty well. Obama's abysmal approval rating there is always going to be multvariant. However, the biggest factors are almost certainly going to be the relative density of religious-right oriented Republicans and the fact that he ran against Mormon darling Romney. The religious right has been vilifying Obama in the most comically extreme ways for years. That's bound to have an impact. Utah isn't just heavily Republican. It's heavily religious-right Republican. Add on top of that the exuberant support of Romney in Utah, due Mormon identity politics, driving a relative dislike of Obama and I think you've got the variance mostly explained already.

[_Jesse Pinkman]

My point is that I believe that the higher approval rating for Clinton among Mormons could be due to the fact that he actually managed to push through many conservative policies that the bulk of conservative Mormons were on board with. Contrast that to the very liberal overall policies of President Obama and it is pretty obvious why the approval rating would be lower.

Very liberal overall policies? Like what, Mitt Romney's healthcare plan? Refraining from invading every troubled Islamic country in the Mediterranean Basin and Middle East? Respecting scientific opinion over the propaganda of oil companies?

Holy crap.

This is one of the substantive (as opposed to trumped up cable news nonsense) problems this country struggles with, our political spectrum has moved so far to the right that what was acceptable for a moderate Republican in the past is now decried as some kind of communist plot.

It is freaking unbelievable.

I'll tell you why Obama's approval rating has plummeted. It has to do with ObamaCare. It is the liberal policy that he ran on from the get-go, and the bottom line is, the majority of Americans feel that he not only lied, but are feeling negative affects from its initiation. President Obama told the people that they would be able to keep their current health insurance if they chose to. That isn't true. Many policies were canceled due to the government policies being put into place. More and more businesses are cutting hours for part-time workers to ensure that they are not eligible for health insurance, and also offering fewer full-time jobs due to the additional cost of ObamaCare for businesses. This directly affects JOBS, the bread and butter of what this country is built on. And please, don't bother telling me that I'm simply quoting "FoxNews drivel". I am speaking from my own personal experience. I worked as a part-time Computer Science Instructor for a State college in NC for 11 years. Once ObamaCare was implemented, they did massive cuts on hours across the board to ensure that none of us were even near the 30 hour a week mark. When my hours went from 24 hours a week to 6, it was to the point that the drive from my house to the school didn't even make sense. I had to find another job. Now, I was lucky enough to find something in the private sector that is, in the long run, a better situation for me. However, this was not without going through months of lack of income, and robbing Peter to pay Paul.

There are plenty of other people who I know personally who have gone through what I have, and haven't fared nearly as well. ObamaCare was President Obama's baby. You can call it Mitt Romney's plan all you want, but ObamaCare was the main platform that President Obama ran on as a candidate.

The fact that you can't seem to recognize that is "un-freaking believable".

[_Jesse Pinkman]

I also find it interesting, Kish, that you seemed to glom onto my mention of Obama's liberal policies, but ignored the fact that I actually brought out a point that supports your initial point regarding the difference between LDS support for Clinton as opposed to support for Obama.

And, frankly, I think that this is something that is worth being discussed:

A white US President who cheated on his wife(Clinton), in essence, committing a sin which the LDS Church considers second only to murder, has a higher approval rating than a black US President(Obama), who is an obviously very faithful family man.

[_EAllusion]

1) Obama ran on a health plan that was quite distinct from the Affordable Care Act. Hillary Clinton ran on a platform very similar to the Affordable Care Act and Obama specifically contrasted himself against that. This isn't what he campaigned on. He backed down on his promises related to health care policy in the 2008 election. In 2012 you can say he ran on it by necessity and implication, though the campaign didn't make it a major focus.

2) When you poll people on the individual policies that constitute the Affordable Care Act, public perception is somewhere between solidly favorable and extremely favorable for everything but the individual mandate. When you poll people on their favorably towards the Affordable Care act, public perception is split to slightly negative against. When you poll people on Obamacare, which obviously is the exact same thing as the above two, public perception is moderately negative.

Then there are all sorts of poll questions that probe deeper into public knowledge of the ACA (1 in 5 Americans believe it has been repealed), that suggest such knowledge isn't very deep.

What this suggests is that public understanding and analysis of the ACA isn't probably doing much to inform favorability ratings. There may be some contribution there, but it almost certainly is not the principle explanatory factor for why Obama's approval rating is where it currently is.

The difference between good favorability ratings and Obama's current favorability slump is only 10% - 50% vs. 40%. The current status of his favorability ratings are almost certainly controlled by some holdover anxiety from the great recession, vague dislike of "Obamacare", ISIS and Ebola news cycles, and a general perception of him as a do-nothing president. The final item is a consequence of unprecedented obstructionism from Republicans, which I'm sure Democrats would be eager to point out in their frustration, but I'd add that Obama is spectacularly inept at attempting to marshal public support against that obstructionism. Clinton, either one, almost certainly would've handled it with greater skill.

[_EAllusion]

Refraining from invading every troubled Islamic country in the Mediterranean Basin and Middle East?

Um, Obama didn't check that box off. His policies are right in line with his predecessors on that front.

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014 ... ince-1980/

[_EAllusion]

2) When you poll people on the individual policies that constitute the Affordable Care Act, public perception is somewhere between solidly favorable and extremely favorable for everything but the individual mandate.

The individual mandate is necessary to make the goody-bag that is the rest of the ACA policies actually function without collapsing the system. You could do without the individual mandate, but you'd have to adjust the rest of the policy as well. That polling on this is telling for how useless public opinion can be on a topic. It comes form the same mentality that causes people to overwhelmingly favor lower taxes and more government programs at the same time.

[_Kishkumen]

I'll tell you why Obama's approval rating has plummeted. It has to do with ObamaCare. It is the liberal policy that he ran on from the get-go, and the bottom line is, the majority of Americans feel that he not only lied, but are feeling negative affects from its initiation. President Obama told the people that they would be able to keep their current health insurance if they chose to. That isn't true. Many policies were canceled due to the government policies being put into place. More and more businesses are cutting hours for part-time workers to ensure that they are not eligible for health insurance, and also offering fewer full-time jobs due to the additional cost of ObamaCare for businesses. This directly affects JOBS, the bread and butter of what this country is built on. And please, don't bother telling me that I'm simply quoting "FoxNews drivel". I am speaking from my own personal experience. I worked as a part-time Computer Science Instructor for a State college in NC for 11 years. Once ObamaCare was implemented, they did massive cuts on hours across the board to ensure that none of us were even near the 30 hour a week mark. When my hours went from 24 hours a week to 6, it was to the point that the drive from my house to the school didn't even make sense. I had to find another job. Now, I was lucky enough to find something in the private sector that is, in the long run, a better situation for me. However, this was not without going through months of lack of income, and robbing Peter to pay Paul.

There are plenty of other people who I know personally who have gone through what I have, and haven't fared nearly as well. ObamaCare was President Obama's baby. You can call it Mitt Romney's plan all you want, but ObamaCare was the main platform that President Obama ran on as a candidate.

The fact that you can't seem to recognize that is "un-freaking believable".

It is not a "liberal" policy at all, Jesse. The least you could do is get your definitions straight.

The rest of your post is the usual collection of half-truths that one ordinarily encounters in any discussion of the issue. I don't really think it is worth my time to try to untangle the mess, especially when unemployment has dipped below 6 percent, the Dow is above 17,000, gas is below 3 bucks, and millions more people have affordable health insurance than had it before the Affordable Care Act.

I am sorry life has been rough for you. I guess that makes the ACA "liberal," all evidence to the contrary.

In my view, liberal should have a more accurate definition than whatever the propaganda mill of the GOP and its media wing at FOX News define it as at the moment. Unfortunately, too many Americans lack the willpower to withstand the lure of the vain repetition that issues forth from them.

[_Kishkumen]

Refraining from invading every troubled Islamic country in the Mediterranean Basin and Middle East?

Um, Obama didn't check that box off. His policies are right in line with his predecessors on that front.

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014 ... ince-1980/

EA, we have not gone in guns blazing to the extent that certain loudmouth senators and lunatic media outlets were advocating; this is what I meant.