Quasimodo wrote:That's true. Faith can also mean loyalty like in the Marine motto "Semper Fidelis" (always faithful) or the once popular dog name "Fido" (I trust). Speaking of that, faith can also mean trust as in "I have faith in that guy" (I trust him).
It can also mean a particular religious denomination or philosophy as in the early 70's cliché "Keep the Faith". It has so many uses that it may have become meaningless.
I think that Twain wanted you to chuckle a little, but I also think that, through his humor, he wanted you to see the wisdom of his little joke.
(Hebrews 11:1) "the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" is a little vague, but the last phrase "evidence of things not seen" may be the clue. Believe, even without evidence, and all will be well, doesn't work for me.
Too many evil things have been done with that statement in mind.
Quasimodo , thanks for filling my list out a bit more. I think the loyalty idea is much closer to faith as a virtue than the believe stuff without evidence idea. I agree with you that that is not a good strategy. I feel sure that that is not what the author of Hebrews meant but I admit that there have probably been uncountable times when people have made reference to that scripture when telling somebody to believe without evidence.
Quasimodo wrote:That's true. Faith can also mean loyalty like in the Marine motto "Semper Fidelis" (always faithful) or the once popular dog name "Fido" (I trust). Speaking of that, faith can also mean trust as in "I have faith in that guy" (I trust him).
It can also mean a particular religious denomination or philosophy as in the early 70's cliché "Keep the Faith". It has so many uses that it may have become meaningless.
I think that Twain wanted you to chuckle a little, but I also think that, through his humor, he wanted you to see the wisdom of his little joke.
(Hebrews 11:1) "the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" is a little vague, but the last phrase "evidence of things not seen" may be the clue. Believe, even without evidence, and all will be well, doesn't work for me.
Too many evil things have been done with that statement in mind.
Quasimodo , thanks for filling my list out a bit more. I think the loyalty idea is much closer to faith as a virtue than the believe stuff without evidence idea. I agree with you that that is not a good strategy. I feel sure that that is not what the author of Hebrews meant but I admit that there have probably been uncountable times when people have made reference to that scripture when telling somebody to believe without evidence.
Wow huckelberry, maybe we have committed a thread derail (I hate when that happens).
I think I'll start a new thread in the Terrestrial Forum. We can pick it up from there.
grindael wrote:I once ran afoul of one of these types who left the church and then came back and then obsessively had to attack everyone who disagreed with Mormonism. He then set his sights on me because he didn't like the information I was providing about Mormon History and doctrine.
He wrote up his reconversion story, he started multiple blogs and Facebook pages, and tooted his own horn about how wrong he was and how he absolutely now knew that Mormonism was the bees knees, that no one was as educated as he was, and that anyone who dared disagree with him was an evil sock puppet of Satan.
Thing is, his stories were all made up and were easy to check and debunk since he had left a multiple year trail of evidence on the internet. When confronted about this, of course he denied it all and blamed everyone else but himself. A couple of years after this his Mormon wife disowned him and he left the church. http://mormonitemusings.com/2012/05/22/wanna-bees-2/
Now that is something I find truly ironic.
Obsessing about Mormonism is detrimental to one's social and mental health. Religious fanatics are only slightly elevated above those celebrity stalkers, in the mental health department.
I agree that he just seemed to have gone inactive without any struggle regarding his faith. Looks like he just drifted away. It is probably a lot easier to become active again if you haven't really questioned. A pretty woman would be all you'd need to help you come back.
BartBurk wrote:I agree that he just seemed to have gone inactive without any struggle regarding his faith. Looks like he just drifted away. It is probably a lot easier to become active again if you haven't really questioned. A pretty woman would be all you'd need to help you come back.
l
when I first skimmed through the article this is exactly what I thought. I read a bit more carefully and found I still agree with this, I do not see where he ever actually asked questions about the truthfulness of the church. I suppose there are many like this . My sister returned to the church after some wayward years I do not get the impression she ever struggled with the fear that the church might be malignant or false.
When I read it a bit more carefully I confess I am able to sympathize with what he has to say however. Age 18 to 27 (approximately) people are inclined to be very self focused. Then people realize life needs a broader and longer perspective. Religious faith can help people reflect on that and adjust. I think a variety of religious systems can do that not just the LDS. Most will have positive values and some internal problems. I think we need to make thoughtful evaluations.
I suspect if he was looking for a social system like the Mormon church it might be natural to decide that the Mormon church is the best possible version.
huckelberry wrote:I suspect if he was looking for a social system like the Mormon church it might be natural to decide that the Mormon church is the best possible version.
An actively serving Mormon Missionary Facebook friend made a comment in his weekly post that said something like, "I know the church is true, the people who live it are so happy!"
It's become a sort of meditative koan for me since. Like all good koans there is paradox and truth in it that I find interesting. It also highlights the infinite divide between this view and "I sincerely doubt the LDS Church's truth claims because the evidence is strongly against."
Worlds without end between.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth? ~ Eiji Yoshikawa
