moksha wrote:Wish I had the energy and resources to Xeriscape my yard. Plant the stuff that can grow without added water and is made for our drying climate. Just as people will be eventually retreating from the shoreline, people will move out of areas where the water is depleted.
Good news, The LDS Church can pick up shoreline property in Florida at a highly discounted rate by 2020.
Here's a simple and cheap solution. Get rid of your turf and stop watering. Whatever grows after that is xeriscape. Remember, the word "weed" is just a derogatory term for indigenous plant life.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.
"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
Quasimodo wrote:Your comment does have relevance as far as the overall water shortage problem. It did not have relevance to the comment that ajax made. Ajax (a climate change denier) was, in effect, trying to say that the problems of a low snowpack (5% of a normal year) were due to increased population in California instead of climate change. Which makes no sense.
Quasimodo,
It isn't "either-or". I get that your response to Ajax was based on his position on climate change and the apparent sarcasm he expressed at your point in presenting the figures. But the issue is more complex, and it wasn't so much the "Nah" that annoyed so much as the dismissal of the point that water scarcity is an issue related to many things, of which the drought itself is a significant factor. But not the only one, and population size and dynamics are a significant part of the calculus. In some ways the drought, though the biggest factor in causing scarcity, isn't necessarily the most meaningful when it comes down to dealing with improving water security. Personally, I'm hesitant to claim that the immediate drought is directly related to climate change in a public forum in that precipitation levels aren't easy to defend in the face of climate change denial. Climate is, as you certainly know, bigger than that so to speak.
I don't think you're representing the direction of the conversation accurately, myself. The dismissal was the flippant point, with the "nah" adding to the dismissiveness while being actually wrong. I'm sorry-ish that you are offended for being told your comment was damned ignorant. I guess it made it stick, though. So there's that.
Well, generally, I do tend to get offended when someone calls me damned ignorant (even if it's true).
Honestly, I think I really do have some appreciation of all the various problems involved in the very poor decisions made over the past fifty years in water management. The subject is something that I have been interested in since I was in school.
However, none of that was related to the conversation I was having with ajax. I think you and I agree on pretty much everything, except my use of the word nah (oops, I wasn't supposed to say that again).
How about this. I'll forget what you said and you forget what I said. You and I should be friends. I don't think we have any intellectual differences.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.
"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
Gunnar wrote:I think you too easily dismiss the importance of population and population growth. Whether urban or not, population drives the need for agriculture and the water required by it. You are right that no one can reasonably dispute that the current drought is by far the biggest reason for the water crisis California is now experiencing, but it is my understanding that even in a normal rainfall year, California's demand for water exceeds the available precipitation falling on it by a considerable margin, and as long as the population continues to increase, the demand for water for all purposes--especially for agriculture--must increase. Since population tends to increase exponentially, if it does not stabilize at some level, the demand for water will inevitably exceed the supply--no matter what realistic and practical measures we take to use our water more efficiently and minimize waste, whether the drought ends or not. Ultimately, any plan to prevent or ameliorate hardships and crises due to shortages of resources of any kind, and increasingly widespread poverty and even starvation that does not include somehow stabilizing human population is guaranteed to fail.
ETA: Nevertheless, as you said, the immediate cause of the current water crisis is climate change--not overpopulation.
Hi Gunnar.
I wasn't dismissing that at all. Truly, I do understand how population growth and agricultural affects our lack of water problems. But, that was not the topic we were discussing before this took an ugly turn.
We were just discussing climate change and if it was a factor in the current situation. I believe it is.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.
"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
Quasimodo wrote: How about this. I'll forget what you said and you forget what I said. You and I should be friends. I don't think we have any intellectual differences.
You're right, and fair enough.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth? ~ Eiji Yoshikawa
Gunnar wrote:I think you too easily dismiss the importance of population and population growth. Whether urban or not, population drives the need for agriculture and the water required by it. You are right that no one can reasonably dispute that the current drought is by far the biggest reason for the water crisis California is now experiencing, but it is my understanding that even in a normal rainfall year, California's demand for water exceeds the available precipitation falling on it by a considerable margin, and as long as the population continues to increase, the demand for water for all purposes--especially for agriculture--must increase. Since population tends to increase exponentially, if it does not stabilize at some level, the demand for water will inevitably exceed the supply--no matter what realistic and practical measures we take to use our water more efficiently and minimize waste, whether the drought ends or not. Ultimately, any plan to prevent or ameliorate hardships and crises due to shortages of resources of any kind, and increasingly widespread poverty and even starvation that does not include somehow stabilizing human population is guaranteed to fail.
ETA: Nevertheless, as you said, the immediate cause of the current water crisis is climate change--not overpopulation.
Hi Gunnar.
I wasn't dismissing that at all. Truly, I do understand how population growth and agricultural affects our lack of water problems. But, that was not the topic we were discussing before this took an ugly turn.
We were just discussing climate change and if it was a factor in the current situation. I believe it is.
Thanks for that clarification. It should have been obvious to me from your other posts in this thread that your position on this really doesn't differ from mine. I see now that your post was in reaction to Ajax's overly dismissive view of the role of the importance of climate change as a significant factor.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
Quasimodo wrote:My wife and I have been discussing how to replace our front lawn with less thirsty plants. Growing lawns to look like Cape Cod in the desert is just crazy. I don't think the water situation here will be getting better. Probably much worse.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
Quasimodo wrote:My wife and I have been discussing how to replace our front lawn with less thirsty plants. Growing lawns to look like Cape Cod in the desert is just crazy. I don't think the water situation here will be getting better. Probably much worse.
NBC wrote:California's ongoing drought is claiming another victim: the state's rice crop.
Nearly 25 percent of California's $5 billion rice crop will be lost this year due to lack of water, say experts. And while analysts say the loss is not a crisis just yet, at least one rice producer is ready to call it a day.
At least I'm doing my part.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.
"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.