Kate Kelly's sour grape u-turn.....

[_ludwigm]

...
They felt like the church took so much time and effort they had little time for themselves or their families. I can relate to that.

I am rarely present on church events --- but ---

Not long ago, I've talked with the bishop's wife (of the ward of my wife).
She is a Hungarian literature and grammar teacher in a middle school (high in US...).

Since their membership, she can not read the minimal literature for keeping up with her necessary knowledge level. She is reading - since then - only church literature. Plus, no reads anything for enjoyment of reading.

[_Mayan Elephant]

A lot of people try to say that it wasn't feminism that got OW in trouble, it was their activism.

there is much of this argument with which i agree.

first of all, OW did not get in so much trouble, kate kelly got in trouble. feminism and activism did not get in trouble, kate kelly got in trouble.

kate kelly was not just a feminist, she was a clownish opportunist. she was not just advocating for women, she was advocating for membership in the priesthood club. i know it will piss off a lot of women for me to say that, but i really believe that she was setting the wrong targets and in it for herself a helluva a lot more than she was in it for women, or for equality.

do you think if she had been given the opportunity to join the elite club, she would have said anything she is saying recently? i do not. i think she would have played it just like she was in the spectacle leading up to her kangaroo excommunication. she did not anchor herself to feminism or women or equality in 2014, she anchored herself to john dehlin. and sharing in the calamity and exposing herself as a self-centered opportunist is exactly what she got for that effort, because that is exactly what john dehlin was doing. the co-defenses, the BFF editorials from each of them, the BFF pictures and peggy stack BS.

honestly, that is not a campaign grounded in core beliefs and integrity, it never was. it is the exact opposite of maxine hanks, who stuck to her beliefs and showed her integrity for decades.

[_Mayan Elephant]

They felt like the church took so much time and effort they had little time for themselves or their families. I can relate to that.

people do things that wear them out, and they do it for a long time. people live longer when they are engaged and occupied in some way.

the church is not losing people because it keeps them busy, it is losing people because the experience is not a fair trade. it is boring, tedious, rote and dull. that is not a fair trade, so people stop.

we should go dan savage on this joint and redefine or rename the church. The Rote of Joseph Smith of Latter-day Drones.

[_Runtu]

people do things that wear them out, and they do it for a long time. people live longer when they are engaged and occupied in some way.

the church is not losing people because it keeps them busy, it is losing people because the experience is not a fair trade. it is boring, tedious, rote and dull. that is not a fair trade, so people stop.

we should go dan savage on this joint and redefine or rename the church. The Rote of Joseph Smith of Latter-day Drones.

Completely agree. It's one thing to work hard for real benefits (blessings, if you will), but for a lot of people, Mormonism takes and takes without giving much of anything in return.

[_Nevo]

Honestly, I think the biggest problem the church has isn't gays, feminists, intellectuals, or the Internet; it's that many, if not most, members, are motivated not by joy or devotion but by obligation.

"I love, I cherish the noble word duty. . . . President John Taylor cautioned us, 'If you do not magnify your calling, God will hold you responsible for those you might have saved, had you done your duty.'"

— Thomas S. Monson, The Call of Duty*

* Anyone else notice the lines plagiarized from Albert Schweitzer in this talk?

[_Chap]

Honestly, I think the biggest problem the church has isn't gays, feminists, intellectuals, or the Internet; it's that many, if not most, members, are motivated not by joy or devotion but by obligation.

"I love, I cherish the noble word duty. . . . President John Taylor cautioned us, 'If you do not magnify your calling, God will hold you responsible for those you might have saved, had you done your duty.'"

— Thomas S. Monson, The Call of Duty*

* Anyone else notice the lines plagiarized from Albert Schweitzer in this talk?

Rejoice in the Lord ... His yoke is easy and his burthen is light.

[_Jersey Girl]

He said the reasons they left the church are different, but the one thing they agree on is that the church had worn them out. They felt like the church took so much time and effort they had little time for themselves or their families. I can relate to that.

Every time I read something like that, Runtu, I think of my LDS friend who died at age 57 of a massive heart attack. I'm not saying that the church kills people or anything. I'm just relating to the above comment, and saying that maybe when members are so busy, they don't take time for themselves including routine medical appointments.

Particularly, mothers whose inclinations are to take care of everything and everyone else before themselves.

[_fetchface]

What strikes me about many of the responses is the apparent belief that the church isn't supposed to spark joy, that it's something you have to do, like the laundry, out of necessity or obligation. Honestly, I think the biggest problem the church has isn't gays, feminists, intellectuals, or the Internet; it's that many, if not most, members, are motivated not by joy or devotion but by obligation.

Our local stake center got condemned due to a defect in the roof construction. They put us in a different building which was undersized and they thought there wasn't enough parking for two wards to overlap, so we had a 2-hour block for a few months.

When they announced the change back to the 3-hour block, the reaction from the faithful was open and unabashed disappointment. I was kind of shocked at how obvious it is that nearly everyone considers church meeting a burden to carry rather than something to get excited about. And I am talking about believers here.

[_Lucretia MacEvil]

Posting the rest of the article for comment. I'm interested in reading how female posters view this.

The decision for a person to stay active in the Mormon church should be based on an honest evaluation of its benefits, and not fear.



The popular home-organizing guru Marie Kondo offers some tips that seem applicable to organizing your spiritual life as well as your shelves. In every quest to de-clutter your living spaces, she encourages people to take out every possession they own and examine it. When deciding to keep or get rid of any given item, Kondo encourages the aspiring de-clutterer to ask themselves: “Does it spark joy?” If the item does not spark joy, it should be discarded to free up space.



I encourage Mormon women to ask themselves a similar question: does my participation in Mormonism spark joy?



I’ve had a year since my excommunication to reflect on my personal answer to this question, but embracing the result has been empowering.



While serving a Mormon mission in Barcelona, Spain, I bought a puffed-sleeve T-shirt with the words in swirly cursive “Stop believing things that are not true” across the chest. At the time, I arrogantly thought of it as funny because I was proselyting that Mormonism was the one true church with a monopoly on truth and goodness. My affinity for that saying has changed over my journey, as it now inspires me to be honest about whether Mormonism sparks joy for me.



It is like discovering air in your lungs for the first time, to let go of the heavy burden of dogma and injustices that act like ritual in Mormonism’s charade to assure us that all are equal. The price of agony needn’t be paid to a church that isn’t willing to hear you and hold you in that pain. They don’t deserve your anguish.



It has been indescribably freeing for me to stop believing that men have control over whether or not I go to heaven. They don’t. In excommunicating me and continuing to punish others, male leaders of the church are gambling on a future of controlled obedience.



It won’t work. We tried to make a middle space where authenticity and orthodoxy could co-exist. Church leaders rejected that. Therefore, it’s not a sign of defeat or weakness to leave an institution that causes you pain. It’s quite the opposite.



I don’t wish for Mormon women to follow me — or to follow anyone. I want them to follow their own hearts, aspirations and dreams. Sometimes the culmination of that journey will lead them out of the church — and that’s O.K.! There is hope and joy to be found in abundance outside of Mormonism. There is calm and rest for your soul, and equal opportunities for your daughters. For many women the safer and more peaceful choice is to leave the church.



Give yourself permission to make the best choice for you and your own wellbeing. Put your faith in yourself and in women.



Always remember, you have power. You can exercise that power by sending a message to the church and voting with your feet. You can remove your name from the records of the church as a way to communicate to male church leaders why they can’t keep you or others like you. This has been my husband’s choice, and for many, many people I respect and admire.



A mass resignation event is scheduled in Salt Lake City at City Creek Park on Saturday, July 25, at 2 p.m. I think it is important to register dissent and let church leaders know the cost of their rigidity.



In the end, there is no one true way to dismantle patriarchy. It will take both people on the inside continuing to agitate and people leaving the church and marking their dissent to facilitate the necessary equality overhaul of Mormonism. But, no one should be made to unduly suffer for the cause of religious parity.


Male leaders colonized our minds to make us think we had to play by their rules to be taken seriously. But, we don’t have to stay and “endure all things” for our critiques of the patriarchal system, and the harm it causes, to be valid. Our level of orthodoxy does not determine the legitimacy of our thoughts, desires, concerns and demands.


After a year, the version of me who wants to urge people to stay has evolved.

I wish now to amend my original advice: If the church does not “spark joy” in you, leave with your head held high.

Absolutely true. As someone said to me when I quit a State job, "it's no disgrace to leave this place."

[_Lucretia MacEvil]

When I was excommunicated from the Mormon church just over a year ago, I was widely quoted as saying, “Don’t leave. Stay, and make things better.”

Many felt that asking women to stay in a church that doesn’t value them as equals was confusing and dangerous. While probably true, at the time I was torn. I didn’t want them to succeed in forcing us out of a space we had fought so hard to claim.

Just this past week a young woman, heartsick and exhausted over the treatment of LDS women, contacted me for advice. She remembered my thoughts to “stay and make things better,” and was determined to do just that. However, when I originally made that statement, I, too, was hurting and exhausted. I hadn’t had time to experience the wonderful resolution and beauty that exist outside of Mormonism.

It is a refreshing discovery to experience the easy peace that comes when you stop struggling to reconcile your heart with a faith community that devalues you.

I let her know that staying is not the only honorable choice.

The decision for a person to stay active in the Mormon church should be based on an honest evaluation of its benefits, and not fear.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kat ... dfe89f2623

In my humble opinion Kate's credibility continues to plummet.
She is no longer trying to positively influence change in the Church, she is advocating others leave as a means of justifying her exit to herself.

Utterly self-absorbed.

Oh, my, give her a break. I was once determined to be re-baptized myself, but once I got a taste of being on the outside, there was no way in heck. Why should she sacrifice herself, and just how much could she change things anyway? She can do just as much good on the outside.