Joseph Smith?????s Indictment for Adultery and Fornication

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
_grindael
_Emeritus
Posts: 6791
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:15 am

Re: Joseph Smith’s Indictment for Adultery and Fornication

Post by _grindael »

Joseph Smith Papers wrote:On 2 November 1836, Joseph Smith, Sidney Rigdon, and others officially organized the Kirtland Safety Society as a community bank by ratifying its constitution.2 Sidney Rigdon served as president and Joseph Smith as cashier.3 Stock in the bank was available for subscription beginning in October 1836.4 In winter 1836–1837, Orson Hyde traveled to Columbus, Ohio, to seek a bank charter from the Ohio state legislature.5 Before such legislation could be introduced, the Kirtland Safety Society was reorganized as an unincorporated banking company on 2 January 1837 with Sidney Rigdon as secretary and Joseph Smith as treasurer.


Jo was one of the FOUNDERS and Treasurer of the "Anti-Bank". They went after Jo and Sidney, because they were the Chief Financial Officers of the Institution. Here is one of the rare $20 Notes...

Image
Riding on a speeding train; trapped inside a revolving door;
Lost in the riddle of a quatrain; Stuck in an elevator between floors.
One focal point in a random world can change your direction:
One step where events converge may alter your perception.
_grindael
_Emeritus
Posts: 6791
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:15 am

Re: Joseph Smith’s Indictment for Adultery and Fornication

Post by _grindael »

ANTI Bank Note,

Image
Riding on a speeding train; trapped inside a revolving door;
Lost in the riddle of a quatrain; Stuck in an elevator between floors.
One focal point in a random world can change your direction:
One step where events converge may alter your perception.
_Mayan Elephant
_Emeritus
Posts: 2408
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:56 pm

Re: Joseph Smith’s Indictment for Adultery and Fornication

Post by _Mayan Elephant »

grindael wrote:
Fence Sitter wrote:Is this about Joseph Smith Sr. ? He died in 1840.

Confused here.


Joseph Smith, Jr. started going by Joseph Smith, Sr. after his father died. John Dinger explains this in the article. :smile:


anyone named x Sr. is a narcissist. nobody is named that by their parents. that is just a douchey thing to do. and to change it from jr to sr is perhaps the douchiest of all.

shouldn't it be Person X > X Jr. > X III . X IV > etc.

there is no room for a Sr. in this unless the person changes their own goddamn name.
"Rocks don't speak for themselves" is an unfortunate phrase to use in defense of a book produced by a rock actually 'speaking' for itself... (I have a Question, 5.15.15)
_ldsfaqs
_Emeritus
Posts: 7953
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:41 pm

Re: Joseph Smith’s Indictment for Adultery and Fornication

Post by _ldsfaqs »

grindael wrote:They went after Jo and Sidney, because they were the Chief Financial Officers of the Institution.


BUZZ WRONG.....

8 June 1837
Joseph Smith resigns from KSS, as he is convinced the bank is not viable

June 1837
LDS newspaper Messenger and Advocate reports that Kirtland land prices have increased 800% during the past year alone.[9]

July 1837
Extant note for $100 with Warren Parrish's signature.

August 1837
Joseph Smith denounces the new leadership of the KSS, since Parrish, at least, was continuing to issue new scrip even though the bank was failing.

27 September 1837
Joseph and Sidney Rigdon go to visit Missouri; in their absence, the Kirtland Church is rent by strife and apostasy

October 1837
Joseph and Sidney found guilty at trial of illegal banking and issuing unauthorized bank paper currency (a civil, not criminal offense). They are fined $1,000 each, and appeal.

You claimed Joseph was found guilty of Fraud. That is false. You claimed Joseph and Rigdon were "Cheif Financial Officers", that also is false. They were not involved in the bank the last half of it's lifetime. They also weren't the ones who did anything wrong, but Parish clearly did by issuing non-backed bank notes.
"Socialism is Rape and Capitalism is consensual sex" - Ben Shapiro
_robuchan
_Emeritus
Posts: 555
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:17 pm

Re: Joseph Smith’s Indictment for Adultery and Fornication

Post by _robuchan »

Grindael, I'm interested in what you say here.

It is interesting that Joseph Smith mentioned the word polygamy when he was informed of the indictments instead of adultery, which is what they were charging him with. This shows that he equated what he was doing with the practice of polygamy and that is how he described what he was being accused of.


This would give interesting insight, but I skimmed through the blog post and your post in response and missed that. What did you mean by this?
_deacon blues
_Emeritus
Posts: 952
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:51 am

Re: Joseph Smith’s Indictment for Adultery and Fornication

Post by _deacon blues »

ldsfaqs wrote:
deacon blues wrote:Joseph Smith was tried for fraud February 1837. He was found guilty. He was fined $1,000.


1. Sorry, he did lose a couple of "civil" cases. But like I said, he didn't lose any Criminal cases.

2. Wrong..... 1st he was only a Cashier at the bank, not in fact one of the top officers, the person who brought the suit instead of going after those actually responsible, instead just went after Smith and Rigdon, thus it clearly was simply an anti-mormon witchhunt. Further, while he was convicted, he was convicted of operating an "Illegal Bank" NOT in fact "fraud" as you claim, and was fined as you said $1,000.
An illegal bank is not fraud.

Read this Wiki Article and this FAIR link to actually understand what really happened in the situation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirtland_Safety_Society
http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_ ... ty_Society

I should also point out that Non-Mormon Lawyers gave the Church legal advice on how to set up the bank and it still be legal.
It was simply bad luck and improper legal advice, not Fraud at all. In fact, as the Wiki article states, many banks in Ohio were set up that way, so it's very likely that the court itself was anti-mormon to have ruled against Joseph, but not doing anything to those actually responsible, and also did not go after all the other same set up type of banks. (though I'm sure there was some since 1837 was a large banking failure period)


Thanks for the apology ldsfaqs. Your response brings up an interesting question: is fraud criminal?
_grindael
_Emeritus
Posts: 6791
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:15 am

Re: Joseph Smith’s Indictment for Adultery and Fornication

Post by _grindael »

So what did Joseph do from January to June, 1837 as the Chief Financial Officer for the Anti Bank? Nothing? He was swindling people, as Parley P. Pratt wrote:

Kirtland, May 23, 1837.

Pres’t J Smith Jr Deare Brother as it is dificult to obtain a personal interview with you at all times By reason of the multitude of Buisiness in which you are engaged you will Excuse my saying In writing what I would otherwise say By word of mouth.

Haveing Long Pondered the Path in which we as a people have been led in regard to our temporal management, I have at Length Become fully convinced that the whole scene of Speculation in which we have Been Engaged is of the Devel; I allude to the covetous Extortionary Speculating Spirit which has reigned in this place for the Last season; which Has given rise to Lying deceiveing and takeing the advantage of ones Nabour and In Short to Every Eavle work:

And Being as fully convinced that you and President Sidney Rigdon; Both By presept and Example have Been the principle means In Leading this people astray in these particulars and haveing myself Been Led astray and Caught in the same snare By your Example and By false Prophesying and preaching from your mouths; yea haveing done many things Rong and plunged myself and family and others well nigh in to distruction, I have awoke to an awful sense of my situation and now resolve to retrace my steps, and to get out of the snare and make restitution as far as I can And now Dear Brother If you are still determined to persue this wicked course untill your self and the Church shall sink down to hell; I Beseach you at least to have mercy on me and my family and others who are Bound with me for those certain 3 lots which you sold to me at the Extortionary price of $2;000 which never cost you $1:00; for if It stands against me it will rewin ruin Myself and a helpless family as well as those Bound with me for yesterday Pres’t Rigdon came to me and Informed me that you had drawn the money from the Bank on the obligation you hold against me and that you had Left it to the mercy of the Bank and could not help what ever course they might take to collect it: notwithstanding the most sacred promise on your part that I should not Be ingured injured By giveing these writings; I offered him the 3 lots for the writings But he wanted my house and home also; now deare Brother will you take those Lots and give me up the writings and pay me the seventy-five dollars which I paid you on the same or will you taake the advantage of your Nabour Because he is in your Power if you will receive this admonition from one who Loves your Soul and repent of your Extortion and covetiousness in this thing, and make restitution you have my fellowship and Esteem as far as it respects our dealings Between ourselves; But if not I Shall Be under the painful necessity of prefering charges against you, for Extortion, covetousness, and takeing advantage of your Brother By an undue religious influence for it is this kind of influence which Led us to make such kind of trades, in this society, such as saying it was the will of God that Lands Should Bear such a price and many other Prophesyings Preachings and Statements of a like nature.

Yours with respect,
Parley P Pratt.

P. S. Do not suppose for a moment that I Lack any Confidence in the Book of Mormons or Doctrine and Covenants Nay It is my firm belief in those Records that hinders my Belief In the course we have Been Led of Late. [p. 4]

1 Jan (Sun)
Oliver Cowdery returned to Kirtland from Philadelphia, with bank note plates and printed bank notes for the KSS. [Marvin S. Hill, C. Keith Rooker, Larry T. Wimmer, BYU Studies, Vol. 17, No. 4, p.433-434; and Dale W. Adams; BYU Studies Vol. 23, No. 4, pg.472.]

1 Jan (Sun)
Orson Hyde returned to Kirtland from Columbus, Ohio, and reported his lack of success in getting the Ohio Legislature to pass a bill granting a bank charter for the KSS. [Marvin S. Hill, C. Keith Rooker, Larry T. Wimmer, BYU Studies, Vol. 17, No. 4, p.433-434.]

2 Jan (Mon)
Members of the Kirtland Safety Society and adopted new, revised "Articles of Agreement," and reorganized their institution as the "Kirtland Safety Society Anti-banking Company, rather than continuing to use the previous name. Sidney Rigdon continued as president and Joseph Smith as cashier. Warren Parrish became secretary and bank teller. [Marvin S. Hill, C. Keith Rooker, Larry T. Wimmer, BYU Studies, Vol. 17, No. 4, p.433-434.] [D. Paul Sampson and Larry T. Wimmer, BYU Studies, Vol. 11, No. 4, p.432.]

2 Jan (Mon)
Joseph Smith obtained a loan from the Bank of Geauga in Painesville, for $3,018.99. This may have been to provide specie and financial backing for the new KSS. [Geauga County Court Records, 1837; as quoted by Marvin S. Hill, C. Keith Rooker, Larry T. Wimmer, BYU Studies, Vol. 17, No. 4, p. 456.]

5 Jan (Thr)
The KSS issued its first bank notes, probably to an initial amount between $10,000 and $15,000. [Marvin S. Hill, C. Keith Rooker, Larry T. Wimmer, BYU Studies, Vol. 17, No. 4, p. 445.]

6 Jan (Fri) 6th I visited the office of the Kirtland Safety Society & saw the first money that was issued by the Treasurer or Society. It was given to Brother Bump (in exchange for other notes) who was the first to Circulate it.

I also herd President Joseph Smith jr. declare in the presence of F Williams, D. Whitmer, S. Smith, W. Parrish, & others in the Deposit Office that he had receieved that morning the Word of the Lord upon the Subject of the Kirtland Safety Society. He was alone in a room by himself & he had not ownly the voice of the Spirit upon the Subject but even an audable voice. He did not tell us at that time what the LORD said upon the subject but remarked that if we would give heed to the Commandments the Lord had given this morning all would be well.

May the Lord bless Brother Joseph with all the Saints & support the above named institution & Protect it so that every weapen formed against it may be broaken & come to nought while the Kirtland Safety Society shall become the greatest of all institutions on EARTH. (Wilford Woodruff's Journal, Vol. 1, 1833–1840, p.120)

"I have listened to him [i.e. Smith] with feelings of no ordinary kind, when he declared that the AUDIBLE VOICE OF GOD, INSTRUCTED HIM TO ESTABLISH A BANKING-ANTI BANKING INSTITUTION, who like Aaron's rod SHALL SWALLOW UP ALL OTHER BANKS (the Bank of Monroe excepted,) and grow and flourish and spread from the rivers to the ends of the earth, and survive when all others should be laid in ruins." (Warren Parrish, Painesville Republican, February 22, 1838, as quoted in Conflict at Kirtland, page 297)

9 Jan (Mon)
The new KSS banking office officially opened in Kirtland. Its officers were from the very beginning reluctant to redeem its notes with specie. [Dale W. Adams; BYU Studies Vol. 23, No. 4, pg.472; Parkin, 1966, p. 219]

mid Jan 1837
Grandison Newell bought up a considerable amount of KSS notes then in circulation and presented them at the bank's Kirtland office, demanding that they be redeemed with specie. The bank probably ran out of its original stock of silver and gold coins well before the end of January.

19 Jan (Thr)
The Painesville Republican advised that the KSS bank notes were not being accepted by the Bank of Geauga in Painesville. For this reason local non-Mormon businessmen woud not accept the bills.

23 Jan (Mon)
Sidney Rigdon, President of the KSS, announced that the Mormon bank would no longer redeem its notes with no specie. Henceforth the notes were backed primarily by real estate, some of which was valued at highly inflated prices. [Kennedy, Early Days of Mormonism, p. 163; Cleveland Daily Gazette, Jan. 24, 1837, cf. issue of Jan 17; Marvin S. Hill, C. Keith Rooker, Larry T. Wimmer, BYU Studies, Vol. 17, No. 4, p.436]

26 Jan (Thr)
Michigan Territory became the 26th state of the USA; this helped establish confidence in that region's future. The coming of statehood also brought with it new banking laws and regulations, endangering the operations of faltering financial institutions in Michigan (like the Bank of Monroe).

27 Jan (Fri)
The Painesville Telegraph announced that the KSS bank would no longer redeem its bank notes with specie.

30 Jan (Tue)
A meeting was held in the Temple to discuss new attempts to obtain a bank charter for the KSS. [Dale W. Adams; BYU Studies Vol. 23, No. 4, pg. 477.] It was about this time that the LDS First Presidency decided to purchase a controlling interest in the faltering Bank of Monroe.

1 Feb (Wed)
KSS bank notes were being exchanged at 12 1/2 cents on the dollar. If about $10,000 of the notes issued in January were still in circulation at this time, their combined face value was about $1,250. [Dale W. Adams; BYU Studies Vol. 23, No. 4, pg.472; and Marvin S. Hill, C. Keith Rooker, Larry T. Wimmer, BYU Studies, Vol. 17, No. 4, p.445-449.

1 Feb (Wed)
The publication of the 2nd edition of the Book of Mormon was completed. Printing of the book had been carried out during the winter of 1836-1837.

2 Feb (Thr)
Following the publication of the 2nd edition of the Book of Mormon, Oliver Cowdery retired as editor of the LDS Messenger and Advocate and sold his share in the Church's printing business to Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon. As cash was very scarce in Kirtland at this time, Cowdery probably accepted a signed promissory note or nearly worthless KSS bills in this transaction. His brother, Warren Cowdery replaced him as editor of the LDS newspaper.

2 Feb (Thr)
A writ was issued for the arrest of Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon. upon complaint of Samuel D. Rounds, a front man for Grandison Newell. The complaint accused Smith and Rigdon of engaging in illegal banking and of issuing unauthorized bank notes. [Dale W. Adams; BYU Studies Vol. 23, No. 4, pg.472.]

3 Feb (Fri)
At about this time Joseph and Hyrum Smith (most likely in company with Oliver Cowdery) left Kirtland for Monroe, MI. In leaving town at this time, Smith no doubt managed to avoid being served with the arrest writ issued on Feb. 2, 1837, thus buying himself some time before having to appear in court to face illegal banking charges. It is possible that he thought by his purchasing a controlling interest in the chartered Bank of Monroe he could avoid conviction on the illegal banking charges -- or, at least continue the Mormons' banking operations under the auspices of the Monroe firm.

8 Feb (Wed)
The US Senate completed the 1836 presidential election process by choosing Richard M. Johnson as Martin Van Buren's vice president. Van Buren took office amid fears of a rapidly worsening national economy.

10 Feb (Fri)
The Mormons, in association with some non-Mormon allies in Geauga county) attempted for a second time to secure a bank charter for the KSS. A bill was introduced in the Legislature with an amendment granting the KSS a charter and authorizing its capital stock up to $300,000. This bill was defeated. [Dale W. Adams; BYU Studies Vol. 23, No. 4, pg.472.]

10 Feb (Fri)
A meeting of the Bank of Monroe Board of Directors was held in Monroe, MI. Joseph and Hyrum Smith attended, along with Oliver Cowdery. Following the Mormon buy-out of Monroe Mayor Harleston's controlling interest in the bank, Oliver Cowdery was made its Vice President. Bailey J. Hathaway, (a nephew of Mrs. Lemuel Durfee and Mrs. Joseph Comstock of Palmyra) was chosen to be the reorganized institution's non-Mormon cashier.

13 Feb (Mon)
At about this Joseph Smith obtained a loan from the reorganized Bank of Monroe and then began his return to Kirtland, leaving Oliver Cowdery behind in Monroe. Joseph and Hyrum Smith probably stopped over in Cleveland, attempting to redeem notes of the Bank of Monroe for specie. Joseph probably also attempted to negotiate a loan from the Bank of Lake Erie at Cleveland while on this trip to the west.

17 Feb (Fri)
At about this time Joseph and Hyrum Smith returned to Kirtland from their trip to the west. Brigham Young and William Smith met their stagecoach, (probably near Mentor) and informed Joseph of a possible plot against his life. William took Joseph's place in the coach, and all arrived in Kirtland without incident. Once back in the town, Joseph and Hyrum met Solomon W. Denton in the Kirtland Bank and confronted him with accusations saying that he had borrowed a pair of pistols with the intention of ambushing and killing Joseph Smith upon his return to Kirtland. Denton denied the accusations.

19 Feb (Sun)
Joseph Smith preached in the Kirtland Temple and informed the audience that the First Presidency had purchased the charter of the Bank of Monroe. In other words, they had purchased the controlling interest in a chartered bank.

20 Feb (Mon)
At about this time, the Feb. 2 writ (issued on Roundy's charging Smith and Rigdon with illegal banking) was probably served upon Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon in Kirtland. The two probably posted bond (perhaps before a Kirtland Justice of the Peace) and agreed to appear at a pre-trial hearing scheduled for March 24. The venue of this hearing is unknown, but perhaps it was Painesville.

20 Feb (Mon)
At about this time, a special "meeting" was held to consider accusations made against Solomon W. Denton. It is likely that this was a late February session of the High Priests' Quorum, presided over by Don Carlos Smith. If so, Denton may have shown his "contempt of the quorum" by not appearing at what must have been essentially a Church court trial examining his loyalty to the LDS leadership.

early Mar 1837
At about this time, Joseph Smith reportedly spoke with Solomon W. Denton, advising him to curb his adverse testimony, if called upon as a witness in an upcoming prosecution of Smith. Denton does not appear to have been cooperative when confronted with this counsel from the First Presidency.

mid Mar 1837
At about this time Solomon W. Denton was excommunicated from the LDS Church.

17 Mar (Fri)
Former President Andrew Jackson returned home to Tennessee, and said that he left office "with barely $90 in my pocket." This marked the beginning of the Panic of 1837, an ensuing national depression, and the resultant need for the US Government to borrow money to meet its financial obligations. Practically every bank in the US stopped redeeming bank notes before the end of March.

24 Mar (Fri)
A hearing was held to consider Roundy's complaint against Smith and Rigdon for engaging in illegal banking activities. Smith and Rigdon were apparently bound over for a jury trial at the fall session of the Geauga County Court of Common Pleas. [Dale W. Adams; BYU Studies Vol. 23, No. 4, pg.472.]

6 Apr (Thr)
The semi-annual Spring Conference began at Kirtland. An important Priesthood meeting was held in the Kirtland Temple, in which new presidents were ordained to preside over the LDS Seventies. Some former Seventies were released, as Joseph Smith had decided that High Priests at that time should not serve as Seventies.

9 Apr (Sun)
Joseph Smith preached in the Temple, announcing that a severe judgment awaited those members who had turned "traitors" and were opposing the use of KSS bank notes. This disobedience, said Smith, "has given power into the hands of the enemy" (non-Mormons who opposed the KSS, etc.) Smith also warned that LDS "covenant breakers" would "feel the wrath of God." [Dean C. Jessee, "The Kirtland Diary of Wilford Woodruff," BYU Studies, Vol. 12, No. 4, p. 393]

13 Apr (Thr)
Grandison Newell filed a complaint with a Justice of the Peace (apparently with Judge Flint in Painesville) charging Joseph Smith with conspiracy to commit murder. The magistrate issued a writ for Smith's arrest. While such writs were theoretically returnable anywhere in Geauga county, they were usually to into the hands of the township constable for execution. In this case, the writ was effectively rendered returnable in Painesville.

13 Apr (Thr)
Joseph Smith heard of the writ issued for his arrest. Knowing that an armed constable would soon appear in Kirtland to apprehend him, he fled town, thus avoid arrest and buying himself time to prepare a case in his defense. The bad news came to Smith suddenly and he was unable to solemnize the marriage of Wilford Woodruff, then in progress in Smith's own house. [Dean C. Jessee, "The Kirtland Diary of Wilford Woodruff."]

13 or 14 Apr
A posse of non-Mormon arrived in Kirtland, seeking Joseph Smith's arrest. This unfriendly group probably accompanied a Painesville constable who held the writ authorizing Smith's arrest. The posse found that Smith had left town and was unable to secure his arrest.

mid Apr 1837
Oliver Cowdery was elected to the office of Justice of the Peace in Kirtland township and Frederick G. Williams was re-elected to the same. Neither man was especially loyal to Joseph Smith at this time.

10 May (Wed)
Major banks in New York City suspended the payment of specie for bank notes, initiating a period of "hard times" and "hard currency" in the USA.

mid May 1837
Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon were unable to continue the operation of the Church's printing business due to overwhelming personal debts. They sold the printing office, press and bindery equipment to William Marks. This effectively ended the old "Literary Firm."

23 May (Tue)
Parley Pratt wrote an angry letter to Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon, accusing them of wrongful dealings with certain Church members, including himself. Pratt said that the LDS leaders took advantage over members like himself, "by undue religious influence," and insinuated that the "scheme of speculation" underlying the operations of the KSS was "of the devil." [Letter printed in Richard Livesey, "An Exposure of Mormonism," (1838), p. 9; original in the Lake County Historical Society Library].

26 May (Fri)
The Painesville Telegraph published an open letter to Sidney Rigdon, written by Grandison Newell. In the letter Newell outlined his charges that Smith had conspired with two other Mormons to have him murdered.

29 May (Mon)
Apostles Orson Pratt and Lyman E. Johnson accused Joseph Smith. Jr., before the Kirtland Stake High Council, of lying, financial fraud, and extortion. In the same Council session First Counselor Sidney Rigdon and "Assistant President" Oliver Cowdery presided over a meeting to consider charges brought against Second Counselor F. G. Williams, David Whitmer, Parley P. Pratt, Lyman E. Johnson, and Warren Parrish. It was decided the Council was not the proper body to try President Williams. Shortly thereafter Williams joined Rigdon and Cowdery in presiding. The members of the High Council were divided in their assessment of these various opposing charges and the meeting broke up without taking disciplinary action against any member of the Church. This open conflict between two factions in the Church leadership marked the beginning of a public acknowledgment of the split between Smith loyalists and reformers which began months earlier. [LDS History of the Church, Vol. II, pp. 484, 485]

29 May (Mon)
At about this time, Joseph Smith came out of hiding and allowed himself to be arrested, probably at his attorney's office in Painesville. It is likely that he was placed under bond and allowed his freedom until his hearing on the 30th.

30 May (Tue)
Joseph Smith, accompanied by his lawyers and potential witnesses, appeared before Justice of the Peace (Talcott?) Flint at Painesville. The prosecution (apparently conducted by James H. Paine, Esq.) did not have its case ready and the hearing was rescheduled for June 3rd. Probably Grandison Newell and his counsel were attempting to find Marvel C. Davis to testify in the case. Mr. Davis never was located during this period -- probably he was in Kirtland.

3 Jun (Sat)
Smith's pre-trial hearing for conspiracy to commit the murder of Grandison Newell, was conducted before Judge Flint in Painesville. LDS Apostles Orson Hyde and Luke S. Johnson testified, acknowledging that "Smith seemed much excited and declared that Newell should be put out of the way, or where the crows could not find him." They claimed Smith had said "destroying Newell would be justifiable in the sight of God, that it was the will of God, &c." Hyde and Johnson also insisted that Smith was "tender-hearted." Warren Parrish did not offer the corroborating testimony Newell expected, and his case was not a strong one after all. Nevertheless, the Judge found enough reason to bind Smith and some witnesses over to the next session of the county court.

9 Jun (Fri)
After a few days' respite, Smith appeared before the Geauga County Court of Common Pleas at Chardon, in the case of "Sate of Ohio vs Joseph Smith, Jr." for conspiracy to commit murder. Despite the offering of a considerable amount of incriminating testimony, Presiding Judge Van R. Humphrey did not feel sufficient evidence was presented to convict Smith on the charges. Joseph Smith was acquitted and returned to Kirtland a free man. http://olivercowdery.com/history/morchrn3.htm#000037
Riding on a speeding train; trapped inside a revolving door;
Lost in the riddle of a quatrain; Stuck in an elevator between floors.
One focal point in a random world can change your direction:
One step where events converge may alter your perception.
_grindael
_Emeritus
Posts: 6791
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:15 am

Re: Joseph Smith’s Indictment for Adultery and Fornication

Post by _grindael »

Jo was involved with the bank until it got so F****D up, he BAILED OUT! Man, are you that stupid?
Riding on a speeding train; trapped inside a revolving door;
Lost in the riddle of a quatrain; Stuck in an elevator between floors.
One focal point in a random world can change your direction:
One step where events converge may alter your perception.
_ldsfaqs
_Emeritus
Posts: 7953
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:41 pm

Re: Joseph Smith’s Indictment for Adultery and Fornication

Post by _ldsfaqs »

deacon blues wrote:Thanks for the apology ldsfaqs. Your response brings up an interesting question: is fraud criminal?


1. Given that the Bank set up was a popular method for setting up perfectly legal "quasi-banks" in Ohio at the time, and Non-Mormon Lawyers advised them how to do it and that it was entirely legal, clearly they had no intention of commiting "fraud".

2. The only person who actually commited "fraud" was Parish, by creating bank notes that had no backing. Thus, the Financial Officers who were actually responsible for doing anything actually wrong, were not held responsible.

3. Joseph when he saw things were going wrong, got out halfway through the banks open operations, after all the bank was started and continued by several people, including non-mormons, thus it wasn't as if he had "control" over the bank. It was a joint operation.

The full facts are clear. What Joseph set up wasn't actually in fact "illegal", thus it wasn't an illegal bank, but what occured AFTER Joseph left WAS Illegal, and DID make the bank an illegal bank. The original charges included those involved, but the anti-mormon who brought the charges removed all names save Joseph and Rigdon, even though they weren't actually involved with the bank when any of it's illegality occured.

Bottom line, the Saints and community needed some form of banking system, they tried to create a normal bank, was disallowed clearly due to anti-mormonism, so they created a multi-use bank, which was legal according to Legal Advise by non-mormon lawyers and experts. Many similar banks existed in Ohio, so the Safety Society wasn't some "new" nor especially "illegal" or fraudulent thing.

Anyway, I know I'm speaking to the wind, because anti-mormons will see only what they want to see that's negative, instead of the whole truth and facts which make clear Joseph did no wrong. He made a mistake, but it was an honest one. Further, they attempted to pay all outstanding depts as possible and agreed upon. That's not fraud. Further, the court did not rule for fraud, it rule simply that an illegal institution was set up. That doesn't equal fraud. But even then, the facts make clear that it WAS legal, at least when Joseph was involved. It failing, is not fraud, that's an assumption. Fraud requires specific actions and characteristics, which Joseph did not engage in. Parish did, but not Joseph. The bank simply did not work, so Joseph got out of it. He's not responsible for the actions of others.

by the way, I was going to go into Law Enforcement since the age of 7 till about 24, and I studied Criminal Justice for two years, not to mention all my own study of the law, criminal mind, behaviors, observation, etc. I can tell what Fraud is. You just think Joseph is immoral, so you auto-matically convict him because of any related negative information toward him. Me, I look at the facts. It's what I'm good at.
"Socialism is Rape and Capitalism is consensual sex" - Ben Shapiro
_grindael
_Emeritus
Posts: 6791
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:15 am

Re: Joseph Smith’s Indictment for Adultery and Fornication

Post by _grindael »

Yeah, Parley P. Pratt calling him out on his swindling and dishonesty is "automatically" convicting him. This was one of his OWN APOSTLES!!!!

Parley P Pratt wrote: Being as fully convinced that you and President Sidney Rigdon; Both By presept and Example have Been the principle means In Leading this people astray in these particulars


That must all be some kind of anti-Mormon scheme, right? It wasn't Warren Parrish, it was Jo Smith and Sidney Rigdon. LOL, you wouldn't know a fact if it slapped you silly and said "Say my name, bitch".
Riding on a speeding train; trapped inside a revolving door;
Lost in the riddle of a quatrain; Stuck in an elevator between floors.
One focal point in a random world can change your direction:
One step where events converge may alter your perception.
Post Reply