EAllusion wrote:Your assertion that she's alienated a large portion of the Dem base. Her favorability ratings among partisan Democrats is quite high.
You realize both of these things can be true at the same time? "Large" is a relative term. If we're talking about the number of voters she'd need to piss off to make a difference in the general election, I think calling it "large" is more than fair.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
EAllusion wrote:Your assertion that she's alienated a large portion of the Dem base. Her favorability ratings among partisan Democrats is quite high.
You realize both of these things can be true at the same time? "Large" is a relative term. If we're talking about the number of voters she'd need to piss off to make a difference in the general election, I think calling it "large" is more than fair.
She has very high favorability numbers from Democrats. They are (or a least recently were) higher than Obama's in 2012. If your point becomes that it is less than 100% and more would help, then your point becomes trite. That's true of every candidate ever. Clinton is about as mainstream Democrat as they come and Democrats like her. Would you talk about how Sanders has alienated a large (meaning relatively small) amount of Democrats?
Clinton has pretty high unfavorables - though Trump blows her out of the water - but that isn't coming from partisan Democrats. Clinton has election weaknesses. Inability to persuade regular Democrat voters to vote for her is not one of them.
Some Schmo wrote:You realize both of these things can be true at the same time? "Large" is a relative term. If we're talking about the number of voters she'd need to piss off to make a difference in the general election, I think calling it "large" is more than fair.
She has very high favorability numbers from Democrats. They are (or a least recently were) higher than Obama's in 2012. If your point becomes that it is less than 100% and more would help, then your point becomes trite. That's true of every candidate ever. Clinton is about as mainstream Democrat as they come and Democrats like her. Would you talk about how Sanders has alienated a large (meaning relatively small) amount of Democrats?
Clinton has pretty high unfavorables - though Trump blows her out of the water - but that isn't coming from partisan Democrats. Clinton has election weaknesses. Inability to persuade regular Democrat voters to vote for her is not one of them.
I somehow have it in my mind that the country is 40% Republican, 40% Democrat, and 20% Independent. At least some Republicans (perhaps 10%) won't vote because they either aren't inspired or just can't pull the lever for Trump. Many democrats don't find Clinton inspirational, either, but voting against Trump is inspirational in its own way, so maybe the D's will have a good turnout.
But what about the independents? Will they like either person, or despise one or the other enough to vote against him or her?
It’s relatively easy to agree that only Homo sapiens can speak about things that don’t really exist, and believe six impossible things before breakfast. You could never convince a monkey to give you a banana by promising him limitless bananas after death in monkey heaven.
Analytics wrote: I somehow have it in my mind that the country is 40% Republican, 40% Democrat, and 20% Independent. At least some Republicans (perhaps 10%) won't vote because they either aren't inspired or just can't pull the lever for Trump. Many democrats don't find Clinton inspirational, either, but voting against Trump is inspirational in its own way, so maybe the D's will have a good turnout.
But what about the independents? Will they like either person, or despise one or the other enough to vote against him or her?
I'm an independent. I believe this election demonstrates the failure of Republicans and Democrats. The Rs in a more spectacular way, but I see the Ds in a retrogade back to the 90s. Both have too much money and too much hubris. Both are far too close to Netanyahu and both will enable further Middle East adventurism. Both are entitled narcissists who reject accountability. Choosing between them is like choosing between the plate of crap and the bowl of puke. I always reserve the right not to vote if my conscience dictates it. I may well sit this one out.
EAllusion wrote:]She has very high favorability numbers from Democrats. They are (or a least recently were) higher than Obama's in 2012. If your point becomes that it is less than 100% and more would help, then your point becomes trite. That's true of every candidate ever. Clinton is about as mainstream Democrat as they come and Democrats like her. Would you talk about how Sanders has alienated a large (meaning relatively small) amount of Democrats?
Clinton has pretty high unfavorables - though Trump blows her out of the water - but that isn't coming from partisan Democrats. Clinton has election weaknesses. Inability to persuade regular Democrat voters to vote for her is not one of them.
I somehow have it in my mind that the country is 40% Republican, 40% Democrat, and 20% Independent. At least some Republicans (perhaps 10%) won't vote because they either aren't inspired or just can't pull the lever for Trump. Many democrats don't find Clinton inspirational, either, but voting against Trump is inspirational in its own way, so maybe the D's will have a good turnout.
But what about the independents? Will they like either person, or despise one or the other enough to vote against him or her?
The numbers fluctuate a bit. On top of this, a problem is there are people who really are Republican or Democrat - meaning they vote that way nearly every time and can be reliably predicted to do so in the future - but call themselves independent or moderate. That said, Democrats make up about 35% of the country give or take, Republicans are 25% give or take, and the rest do not say they affiliate minus some small 3rd party identifications.
Trump and Clinton both have historically large amounts of people who say they actively dislike them, but Trump's numbers are crazy:
Anything can happen in an election. Americans largely do not vote based on ideology and so Trump being Mussolini redux is less of a problem than you'd like to think. All it would take is a major Islamic terrorist attack in the next 6 months and Trump would get a nice, utterly irrational bounce. That said, Clinton should be viewed as a pretty strong favorite in the general election.
Analytics wrote: I somehow have it in my mind that the country is 40% Republican, 40% Democrat, and 20% Independent. At least some Republicans (perhaps 10%) won't vote because they either aren't inspired or just can't pull the lever for Trump. Many democrats don't find Clinton inspirational, either, but voting against Trump is inspirational in its own way, so maybe the D's will have a good turnout.
But what about the independents? Will they like either person, or despise one or the other enough to vote against him or her?
I'm an independent. I believe this election demonstrates the failure of Republicans and Democrats. The Rs in a more spectacular way, but I see the Ds in a retrogade back to the 90s. Both have too much money and too much hubris. Both are far too close to Netanyahu and both will enable further Middle East adventurism. Both are entitled narcissists who reject accountability. Choosing between them is like choosing between the plate of s*** and the bowl of puke. I always reserve the right not to vote if my conscience dictates it. I may well sit this one out.
While I'm not a member of any political party I lean Green.
I agree that both R's and D's are entitled narcissists who reject accountability. However we're going to have one or the other. If I were in a battle ground state I'd vote for Hilary in a heartbeat(Trump would be an absolute disaster.). But I don't so I'll probably vote Green
I worked too long and too hard for 18 year old's to have the right to vote. So not voting is not an option.
Maksutov wrote: I'm an independent. I believe this election demonstrates the failure of Republicans and Democrats. The Rs in a more spectacular way, but I see the Ds in a retrogade back to the 90s. Both have too much money and too much hubris. Both are far too close to Netanyahu and both will enable further Middle East adventurism. Both are entitled narcissists who reject accountability. Choosing between them is like choosing between the plate of s*** and the bowl of puke. I always reserve the right not to vote if my conscience dictates it. I may well sit this one out.
While I'm not a member of any political party I lean Green.
I agree that both R's and D's are entitled narcissists who reject accountability. However we're going to have one or the other. If I were in a battle ground state I'd vote for Hilary in a heartbeat(Trump would be an absolute disaster.). But I don't so I'll probably vote Green
I worked too long and too hard for 18 year old's to have the right to vote. So not voting is not an option.
Good for you. I spent 10 years taking care of veterans who had their guts shot out and brains screwed up. Guess what? Both parties screwed them. Then and now. And now they're going to make more of them.
I can always vote for myself and feel better if that's a problem, but for me it isn't. I don't need to salute flags and I don't need to vote when I think everyone sucks. I get to make that decision. And anybody who judges me can just “F” off.
Analytics wrote:Many democrats don't find Clinton inspirational, either, but voting against Trump is inspirational in its own way, so maybe the D's will have a good turnout.
I wonder how much a distaste for Drumpf will affect voter turnout, as much as I wonder how much GOP hate for Hillary will inspire turnout.
Analytics wrote:But what about the independents? Will they like either person, or despise one or the other enough to vote against him or her?
Well, this Independent likes neither. I can't, in good conscience, vote for either. So I'll be writing in Bernie (or Mickey Mouse) for president and voting non-incumbent down-ticket. I am aware of a couple people who say they will vote Hillary to stop Drumpf, but if it happens, it'll happen both ways.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
Analytics wrote:Many democrats don't find Clinton inspirational, either, but voting against Trump is inspirational in its own way, so maybe the D's will have a good turnout.
I wonder how much a distaste for Drumpf will affect voter turnout, as much as I wonder how much GOP hate for Hillary will inspire turnout.
Analytics wrote:But what about the independents? Will they like either person, or despise one or the other enough to vote against him or her?
Well, this Independent likes neither. I can't, in good conscience, vote for either. So I'll be writing in Bernie (or Mickey Mouse) for president and voting non-incumbent down-ticket. I am aware of a couple people who say they will vote Hillary to stop Drumpf, but if it happens, it'll happen both ways.
Non-incumbent down ticket, that's where it will happen...or not.
It will be amusing to see how the "miserable SOB" does back in the Senate.
