Patrick & Dehlin - Why Are Ex-Mormons "So Angry"?

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_I have a question
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Patrick & Dehlin - Why Are Ex-Mormons "So Angry"?

Post by _I have a question »

More reasonable discussion and debate about the key elements of a faith crisis.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mormoninou ... -so-angry/

The reasons for the anger vary widely, but often include one or more of the following:
Feeling misled or lied to by an organization (the church) that you once trusted completely — with your full heart.

Regretting the amount of time, money, energy, and reputation that you gave to the church – under what you later discover to be deceptive and false pretenses. In some cases people have given hundreds of thousands of dollars (yen, pounds, etc.) and several decades of their lives to church service — sometimes even sacrificing meaningful educational or career opportunities — only to discover that they built their lives upon what they now view as a fraudulent foundation that sometimes causes harm to good, innocent people (e.g., LGBT, women, people of color).

It is not uncommon for a believing spouse to divorce a no-longer-believing spouse because of their loss of faith. Having your family implode, with children as the collateral damage — all over a religion that you now believe to be false — can be terribly upsetting and disruptive.

It is very common to lose one’s entire faith community, lifelong friendships, and sometimes even employment over a loss of faith. This is not an exaggeration, especially in Utah. What’s worse is that once someone leaves the church, it is not uncommon for parents, siblings, friends, and ward members to express ZERO interest in learning about or understanding why the person chose to leave. This can be so…incredibly….frustrating and disorienting — especially when it involves longstanding and intimate relationships that you once felt were solid and authentic. Still, most QDDPM are met with stone cold silence after they decide to disaffiliate. For so many, it is one of the most bizarre and anger-inducing aspects of post-Mormonism.

Perhaps the most devastating blow of all can come from believing family members — parents, siblings, spouse, children — who often come to view the non-believer as a massive disappointment, regardless of how healthy or productive their lives become after leaving the church. No one wants to feel like a disappointment to the people they love most. Feeling loved, accepted, and valued by our family members is a core emotional and psychological need — and yet religious differences often immediately dissolve long and hard-earned feelings of love and respect. I often joke that a former Mormon could cure cancer or win the Nobel Peace Prize and still be viewed as a disappointment by their believing Mormon parents, siblings, and friends. Why do QDDPM get so angry? Such family devaluing, distancing, and ultimate rejection can be devastating to someone who simply believes that they are following their conscience (and the evidence).

These are just a few of the reasons that people become angry after a loss of faith.


I think this is an interesting project that they have started.
I hope they see it through.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Patrick & Dehlin - Why Are Ex-Mormons "So Angry"?

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

What is QDDPM?

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_reflexzero
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Re: Patrick & Dehlin - Why Are Ex-Mormons "So Angry"?

Post by _reflexzero »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:What is QDDPM?

- Doc


questioning/doubting/disbelieving/post-Mormon
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.
_Gadianton
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Re: Patrick & Dehlin - Why Are Ex-Mormons "So Angry"?

Post by _Gadianton »

Not a bad start but I think there are some misses due to Patrick coming at this from the perspective of a socially aware active believer. For those who leave the church over social issues, I have to wonder, suppose the Church accepted gay marriage, is it all good now? Gold plates are real and Zelph lived? GTF's home base is Kolob?

An educated liberal believer may easily shelf all these things, but the mythology is what the Chapel Mormon lives inside, and what ultimately determines bad policies. (obviously, prejudice determined the mythology in the first place)

If you believe in the capstone of Mormon thought, Eternal Progression, how in the world are you going to be angry over no gay marriage? You could argue against the grain and say that all the back pedaling on sex in heaven really opens up the possibilities, but it's unlikely a TBM would ever come up with that reasoning.

As Maksutov recently pointed out, people are no longer believing these days because they don't buy into gold plates and hobgoblins.

So start there, the magical world is a lie. Patrick covered that much. That could make some people angry.

From there, the enlightened ones may be angry over social issues, but the first impulse of us backwards types wasn't to get upset over the logical implications of the mythology unless really close to home for some reason. A major current is the massive lifestyle hypocrisy and personal dishonesty of Joseph Smith in respect to the G-rated adventure story of pure young Joseph told by the Church, and also the G-rated puritanical lifestyle the Church expects members to live -- citing Joseph Smith as the premier example of the G-rated lifestyle.

Another major current is the business side of the Church. Everything from "Heartsell" to the Mall, and all along the way members are manipulated. Everyone I knew believed 10% on gross was the law of tithing. No Bishop at any time clarified to my family that this was not so, and that members decide for themselves, and it's all "on you honor" -- rigging the game to screw over members predisposed to guilt, and making it easier for those who aren't. The business side since ETB added a new dimension of the brethren actually not knowing a damn thing about Mormon Doctrine, but perpetuating the myth that the Brethren are Prophets and Seers. They don't even have the interest in prophecy, they actively work to distance the Church from doctrine. The guy pretending to be the kind loving prophet with all the answers and wisdom, perhaps he even speaks with "him" in the holy of holies, is really just a glorified accountant/motivational speaker.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
_Corsair
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Re: Patrick & Dehlin - Why Are Ex-Mormons "So Angry"?

Post by _Corsair »

I have a question wrote:I think this is an interesting project that they have started.
I hope they see it through.

I'm also enjoying these published discussions. Seeing it through would be interesting, but I'm not holding my breath for my believing family or ward leadership to take any direction from this discussion. Former believers are going to be demonized by their faithful families and wards for a long time. LDS culture remains Mormon Uber Alles and I don't foresee any new institutional humility arising from this discussion between Mason and Dehlin.
_SuperDell
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Re: Patrick & Dehlin - Why Are Ex-Mormons "So Angry"?

Post by _SuperDell »

"The guy pretending to be the kind loving prophet with all the answers and wisdom, perhaps he even speaks with "him" in the holy of holies, is really just a glorified accountant/motivational speaker."

Monson can wiggle his ears. You don't get much more Prophetic than that.
“Those who never retract their opinions love themselves more than they love truth.”
― Joseph Joubert
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Patrick & Dehlin - Why Are Ex-Mormons "So Angry"?

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

reflexzero wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:What is QDDPM?

- Doc


questioning/doubting/disbelieving/post-Mormon


Thanks!

Can you imagine being a LGBTTQQIAAPFGPBDSMQDDPM? I think I got them all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT#Variants

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_candygal
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Re: Patrick & Dehlin - Why Are Ex-Mormons "So Angry"?

Post by _candygal »

Corsair wrote:
I have a question wrote:I think this is an interesting project that they have started.
I hope they see it through.

I'm also enjoying these published discussions. Seeing it through would be interesting, but I'm not holding my breath for my believing family or ward leadership to take any direction from this discussion. Former believers are going to be demonized by their faithful families and wards for a long time. LDS culture remains Mormon Uber Alles and I don't foresee any new institutional humility arising from this discussion between Mason and Dehlin.
This is so true. We will always be the dark ones..the mislead ones..and yet, the essays themselves are a kind of proof that we are right. It is a circle of thought and twisting of brainwashed and guilt ridden people that can make this alright.
_I have a question
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Re: Patrick & Dehlin - Why Are Ex-Mormons "So Angry"?

Post by _I have a question »

candygal wrote:This is so true. We will always be the dark ones..the mislead ones..and yet, the essays themselves are a kind of proof that we are right. It is a circle of thought and twisting of brainwashed and guilt ridden people that can make this all right.


Pre-essays - stating that Joseph had affairs with teenagers behind his wife back, or that the Book of Mormon was produced by reading words off of a rock in a hat, would have earned you the label of anti-mormon apostate. Now those things are Gospel doctrine.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
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