fetchface wrote:There is nothing more dangerous to the strict orthodoxy than people like Bill. The church runs a version of the Asch conformity experiment every Sunday in every ward in the world. People who are willing to sit there through all of that boring tedium and express differing reasonable opinions ruin the whole effect, as proven in the variants on that experiment.
While I don't understand the desire to attend church and help them eventually come around (because I personally find the whole environment to be toxic), there is no doubt that the brethren are frightened most of people who stay, who are friendly, and who don't conform. If you reach a critical mass of Bill Reels (people who voice reasonable objections out loud), the church changes. Again, see the Asch conformity experiment and its variants for a practical demonstration.
Or they just get rid of them all as they have done in the past... Make them apostates and then you can deride and ridicule them from your great and spacious building...
Exactly and exactly. Sums up the entire LDS church in my opinion. The end.
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby
Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson
grindael wrote:Or they just get rid of them all as they have done in the past... Make them apostates and then you can deride and ridicule them from your great and spacious building...
I would not be surprised one bit if Bill's stake president were to get a call some day...
I found these two comments that someone posted on Bill's Facebook page to be indicative of how most of the Mormons I know feel. This is probably a good indication of what Reel deals with on a weekly basis at church I suspect?
Bill Reel, I'm not saying these are non-issues. My issue is you present yourself as someone "safe," to help people with their faith struggles. And yet all you do all day long is post anything you can find that might chip away at a person's testimony, as if you've found any belief system that doesn't require faith or the ability to negotiate around difficult issues. You're just a spiritual vandal that seems to take satisfaction only posting all this one sided information.
I get that these can be difficult issues, but they are by no means insurmountable. It took me a while to work through them, and if all I got was a daily dose of this garbage I probably wouldn't have made it through, but with time, and thought, and reading, and working through it I made it fine. My issue is that all Bill does is throw crap out there, a lot of which I bet he doesn't have that big an issue with, but knows others likely will. Not brave, not honest, not helpful. At the very least, strike a balance. There are answers and responses to those things. Some are weak, some are strong, but to act as though no one has ever addressed them makes you a bully.
Bill Reel So then why are you shoving them in people's faces, other than to try and push them out of the church?
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby
Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson
Choyo Chagas is Chairman of the Big Four, the ruler of the planet from "The Bull's Hour" ( Russian: Час Быка), a social science fiction novel written by Soviet author and paleontologist Ivan Yefremov in 1968. Six months after its publication Soviet authorities banned the book and attempted to remove it from libraries and bookshops.
Mary wrote:As for nuanced Mormons PP, a shout out to the women who fill that role, in particular Gina Colvin.
My goodness, she is active, opinionated, feisty, and walks her own path.
Also had the privilege of meeting her in real life at the English Sunstone.
It's not a path I could walk, but she has my total respect, as do the Lindsay H Park's of this small Mormon world.
And she is still part of a false religion ran by misogynistic leaders.
The bosses of LDS Inc play her like Joseph played Emma about polygamy.
I'm sorry, but have zero respect for the Mormon church and therefore have very little respect for those who remain in it for the sole purpose of changing it.
You want to change it? Leave.
#LDSexit
New name: Boaz The most viewed "ignored" poster in Shady Acres® !
Cwald wrote:Two years buddy, two years. Bill, the church cannot survive your kind of honest questions, attitude, perspective and activism. You are too moral and ethical of a guy to NOT get kicked out or just leave. That is just my opinion today.
An opinion I agree with. It's just a matter of time and a few more gatherings.
Cwald wrote:Two years buddy, two years. Bill, the church cannot survive your kind of honest questions, attitude, perspective and activism. You are too moral and ethical of a guy to NOT get kicked out or just leave. That is just my opinion today.
An opinion I agree with. It's just a matter of time and a few more gatherings.
Gatherings?? Is he going Meldrum like?
New name: Boaz The most viewed "ignored" poster in Shady Acres® !
Mary wrote:As for nuanced Mormons PP, a shout out to the women who fill that role, in particular Gina Colvin.
My goodness, she is active, opinionated, feisty, and walks her own path.
Also had the privilege of meeting her in real life at the English Sunstone.
It's not a path I could walk, but she has my total respect, as do the Lindsay H Park's of this small Mormon world.
And she is still part of a false religion ran by misogynistic leaders.
The bosses of LDS Inc play her like Joseph played Emma about polygamy.
I'm sorry, but have zero respect for the Mormon church and therefore have very little respect for those who remain in it for the sole purpose of changing it.
You want to change it? Leave.
#LDSexit
Like I say, it's not a path I could walk. Aspects of Mormonism are very unhealthy. Having said that, I don't believe there is only one way to deal with nuance and leaving or staying in any religion.
"It's a little like the Confederate Constitution guaranteeing the freedom to own slaves. Irony doesn't exist for bigots or fanatics." Maksutov
