Zerinus and Introspection Illusion

[_Gadianton]

Z, Is rejecting elves and rudolf a belief system?

[_Maksutov]

Just to add another voice to this, "God" isn't a well-defined thing. Some people believe God is everywhere. Some believe He is nowhere. Some believe He is both. Some believe he is intimately involved in the workings of the universe, holds it together, and regularly intervenes in creation. Others believe he "wound the clock" and then sits back watching it unfold. Some believe He's a humanoid space traveler with a home base on a planet orbiting a star called Kolob. What is God? Believers aren't even close to coming on a consensus on this. Until the question of "what is God?" is clarified, expressing an opinion on whether "God" exists is a meaningless exercise.

If you don't believe in "God", you are an atheist. That's the definition. It isn't a belief system--it is a lack of a belief system.

As more examples:

Say there is a group of people that believe in "plucketeries," but these believers don't explain what plucketeries actually are. They just say there is a possibility that they exist and that they have faith that they in fact do exist.

Say I respond that I don't believe in plucketeries. How could I believe in them if I don't even know what they are? Is not believing in plucketeries a belief system?

Likewise, I don't believe in magic elves. Is that a belief system?
Likewise, I don't believe in square triangles. Is that a belief system?

Brilliant.

[_Maksutov]

That is what you are saying. That a purely subjective, un repeatable claim has the same value, as an objective completely repeatable claim.

You are claiming your testimony should have the same value in our lives as the assertion that the freezing point of water under normal conditions is 0 celsius. The one anyone can test and verify, the other only exists in your head,.

There is a difference, and it does not "work both ways". The one that anyone can validate repeatedly is actually important. The other is the equal of every unverifiable subjective claim. Add it to the trash heap of religious claims.

Testing must be performed through prayer and feelings, not science. Let's try this out and see what happens.

[_SteelHead]

Talking rubbish, nonsense, wasting time. Not interested.

Interesting reaction to when anyone trashed his nonsense.

Ahhh poor zerinus. Not interested in actually becoming a thinker instead of a kool-aide drinker, and the kool-aide only costs him 10% of his income to a corporation that does little charity, plus an opportunity to clean the toilettes every other month.


I strongly declare that Olodumare has revealed to me that there are no square triangles, and that square triangles are of Exu!!!!

[_Dr Exiled]

No it doesn't (work both ways). Else-wise you are saying we are obligated to give weight to what ever ridiculous subjective claim anyone in the world makes.

Talking nonsense. You know perfectly well what I mean.

Your arguments boil down to simple affirmations with nothing more and blanket denials of actual arguments against your affirmations. Is there anything more than that to your presentation here? If not why are you here? To make a blanket statement that you are right and those that disagree with you are wrong? I think you already did enough to earn your Mormon apologist merit badge.

[_Analytics]

Just to add another voice to this, "God" isn't a well-defined thing. Some people believe God is everywhere. Some believe He is nowhere. Some believe He is both. . . .

Whatever people believe God is, it is still a belief system, just as atheism is a belief system.

Is disbelieving in God is a belief system in the same way that disbelieving in magic elves is a belief system?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Apparently that part of the essay is specifically for you.

While he'd benefit from reading the link, I guarantee you he won't click on it. You'd have to parse this:

What Is Atheism?

No one asks this question enough.

The reason no one asks this question a lot is because most people have preconceived ideas and notions about what an Atheist is and is not. Where these preconceived ideas come from varies, but they tend to evolve from theistic influences or other sources.

Atheism is usually defined incorrectly as a belief system. Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods. Older dictionaries define atheism as "a belief that there is no God." Some dictionaries even go so far as to define Atheism as "wickedness," "sinfulness," and other derogatory adjectives. Clearly, theistic influence taints dictionaries. People cannot trust these dictionaries to define atheism. The fact that dictionaries define Atheism as "there is no God" betrays the (mono)theistic influence. Without the (mono)theistic influence, the definition would at least read "there are no gods."

Why should atheists allow theists to define who atheists are? Do other minorities allow the majority to define their character, views, and opinions? No, they do not. So why does everyone expect atheists to lie down and accept the definition placed upon them by the world’s theists? Atheists will define themselves.

Atheism is not a belief system nor is it a religion. While there are some religions that are atheistic (certain sects of Buddhism, for example), that does not mean that atheism is a religion. Two commonly used retorts to the nonsense that atheism is a religion are: 1) If atheism is a religion, then bald is a hair color, and 2) If atheism is a religion, then health is a disease. A new one introduced in 2012 by Bill Maher is, "If atheism is a religion, then abstinence is a sexual position."

The only common thread that ties all atheists together is a lack of belief in gods and supernatural beings. Some of the best debates we have ever had have been with fellow atheists. This is because atheists do not have a common belief system, sacred scripture or atheist Pope. This means atheists often disagree on many issues and ideas. Atheists come in a variety of shapes, colors, beliefs, convictions, and backgrounds. We are as unique as our fingerprints.

Into this:

If atheism is a religion, then bald is a hair color.

Even then it's pretty certain he won't register the meanings of the various words in that sentence into any coherent thought. I'm being serious. The dude, much like LDSFAQs, is literally impervious to reason.

In fact, I'm certain because this particular post has a lot of content he won't even get this far.

- Doc

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Is disbelieving in God is a belief system in the same way that disbelieving in magic elves is a belief system?

Atheism probably can be accurately described as a 'disbelief system'. I'd be comfortable with that.

- Doc

[_Doctor Steuss]

[...] introspection illusion [...]

Thank you DrW for introducing me to this term. I love exploring things in experimental psychology. This one has turned out to be a wonderful treasure trove of discovery.

I especially enjoyed this paper on introspection illusion, and it being the source (or at least a major contributor) of cognitive bias blind spot:

http://home.uchicago.edu/~mkugler/Publi ... havior.pdf

Thank you again! This is incredibly enlightening, and enjoyable stuff! This is probably going to keep me busy for a while.

[_zerinus]

Is disbelieving in God is a belief system in the same way that disbelieving in magic elves is a belief system?

Disbeieving in magic elves is not a belief system, any more than believing in magic elves is a belief system (unless you worshiped imagic elves and believed it was God). Believing in God is a belief system, just as disbelieving in God is a belief system.