Obama illegally wire tapped Trump Tower

[_Chap]

Louise Mensch had reported back claimed without evidence in November that the FBI had applied for and been granted a warrant. (It was the second attempt to get one). Guess we're going to find out now.

Don't you think my version matches the state of the case rather more accurately?

And let's not forget that the whole damn' thing shows how very, very anxious Trump is to distract attention from the Russia-linked animal-origin fertiliser storm that is currently making him look less and less presidential. Can we get back to that? Until Trump produces something other than 'people have said to me', there is really nothing to discuss.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Perhaps you need to ask why you are letting this issue raise your blood pressure so much. It's not good for you at all. Something about women, perhaps?

Perhaps you need to ask yourself why you feel a need to keep insinuating I'm a misogynist. I mean if we want to start psychoanalyzing one another then I'm game. I already think Kevin Graham is an overcompensating racist, and that many Leftists, Leftist men in particular, aren't so much White Knights crusading on the notion they're fighting the good fight, but are actually unremarkable men compensating for their various insecurities at the least and under-the-surface bigotries at the most.

In particular, I think Leftist partisans in many instances are deeply troubled people who have found salvation through an ideology that exculpates their original sins, sins not comprised of race, socioeconomic status, or gender but rather inefficacy, impotency, and an abject lack of import. Their politicking is the 'ism to their existential crisis.

And you, my friend, are starting to worry me a bit. You should get that looked at.

- Doc

[_Chap]

Perhaps you need to ask why you are letting this issue raise your blood pressure so much. It's not good for you at all. Something about women, perhaps?

Perhaps you need to ask yourself why you feel a need to keep insinuating I'm a misogynist. ...

I don't think you consciously dislike women. But you do seem to be missing the point of the 'wear white and be polite' protest during Trump's speech so determinedly that I do wonder whether the gender of those involved may not be a factor in some way.

But in any case, I do think you risked a derail by introducing this topic into a thread about Trump's apparently baseless claims that 'Obama tapped his phone.'

As I said above, that is clearly a rather desperate attempt to distract attention from the very real damage done to his administration by his team's links with Russia - and the inept efforts made to conceal them.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I don't think you consciously dislike women.

I think I consciously dislike a lot of women. In fact, I dislike the majority of them just like I dislike the majority of men. If you're going to levy an aspersion at me at least have the decency of calling me a misanthrope because that'd be more accurate.

Regardless, the thread is already old because Trump was drunk Tweeting new crap and this particular episode of him will be forgotten by the toothless and morally ambiguous Democrats, even the ones who wear white because "Women!TM".

- Doc

[Guest]

the thread is already old because Trump was drunk Tweeting new ____ and this particular episode of him will be forgotten

You seem to be wrong there ... though the bolded and enlarged text below may signify a certain 'Oh hell, what's he done NOW?' atmosphere amongst Trump staffers.

Trump urges Obama 'abuse of power' probe amid wire-tapping claim

US President Donald Trump has called for his allegations that Barack Obama ordered his phones to be tapped during the election campaign to be investigated by Congress.

His press secretary said the inquiry into alleged Russian interference in the election should also probe whether executive powers were abused.

Mr Trump made the claims in a series of tweets but offered no evidence.

Mr Obama never "ordered surveillance of any US citizen", his spokesman said.
Mr Trump, who has been facing intense scrutiny over alleged Russian interference in support of his election campaign, made the wire-tapping allegation in a series of tweets early on Saturday.

Writing from his weekend home in Florida, he called the alleged tapping "Nixon/Watergate", referring to the notorious political scandal of 1972, which led to the downfall of President Richard Nixon.

His claims sparked calls from Republican and Democrat politicians alike for details to back them up.

In another series of tweets on Sunday, White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer did not provide any further evidence.
He said: "Reports concerning potentially politically motivated investigations immediately ahead of the 2016 election are very troubling.
"President Trump is requesting that as part of their investigation into Russian activity, the congressional intelligence committees exercise their oversight authority to determine whether executive branch investigative powers were abused in 2016."
He added: "Neither the White House nor the President will comment further until such oversight is conducted."

Mr Trump's tweets followed allegations made by conservative radio host Mark Levin, including that the Obama administration "sought, and eventually obtained, authorisation to eavesdrop" on the Trump campaign last year.
Other media reports had previously suggested the FBI had sought a warrant from the foreign intelligence surveillance court (Fisa) in order to monitor members of the Trump team suspected of irregular contacts with Russian officials.

The warrant was first turned down but then reportedly approved in October, though there has been no official confirmation.

Under Fisa, wire-tapping can only be approved if there is probable cause to believe that the target of the surveillance is an agent of a foreign power. Mr Obama could not lawfully have ordered such a warrant.

The spokesman for Mr Obama, Kevin Lewis, said the accusation was "simply false".
A "cardinal rule of the Obama Administration was that no White House official ever interfered with any independent investigation led by the Department of Justice", he said.
The statement left open the possibility that a judicial investigation had been taking place.

Some Democrats have suggested Mr Trump's allegations were an attempt to focus attention away from the Russian affair.
House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi said: "The Deflector-in-Chief is at it again."

[Edited for typo]

[_Maksutov]

Trump follows the "Never defend, never explain, always attack" tactic. We'll see how well that works.

[_The CCC]

No President has the power to issue a FISA warrant.

[_MeDotOrg]

Watching Trump Spokesperson Huckabee Sanders (great name) on ABC this morning was instructive. Martha Raddatz was visibly frustrated as Sanders kept insisting that an investigation was needed into these allegations. Raddatz replied that Trump stated there were facts, and if there are facts, he should reveal those facts to the American citizens.

pictures upload

Again, words have meaning: the fact that President Obama was tapping my phones in October.

'The 'fact' that Obama was tapping his phones may turn out to be the based on the same facts that Trump's investigators found in Hawaii when they were founding out all those interesting things about Obama's birth certificate.

So Donald Trump has information based on 'facts', but rather than release those facts, he does not give those facts to the American people, nor does he say that he will give that information to any investigative committee. He says someone else needs to investigate it, without giving any information as to how or why, nor will he comment until such an investigation is completed.

Remember that Trump has claimed Obama was not born in the United States, that 3-5 million people voted illegally in the past election, and that the President of the United States wiretapped his phone during the past election, without providing proof.

The intelligence community has said that one of the goals Russian influence in the election was to diminish the trust of Americans in the democratic process. Donald Trump should keep that in mind when he releases information about the election in tweets with no facts to substantiate them.

I heard one commentator propose that while the Russians were trying to influence the election, they weren't seriously trying to elect Donald Trump as much as damage the person they thought would be President, Hillary Clinton. That strikes me as possible.

Trump has a knee-jerk reaction to any criticism: deny, deflect. These are instincts honed over an entire career devoted to burnishing the value of the Trump Brand, which Trump himself has valued at several billion dollars. The problem is that the instincts that served him as as a businessman are not the best servants for a President.

The lesson of Watergate is to get out in front of a story, that denial and obfuscation create more damage than the original crime. Trump seems not to recognize that the news cycle for a political story is longer and more complete than the news cycle for entertainment. He cannot dismiss the Russia controversy the same way he deals with Rosie O'Donnell. In the entertainment world you can make brash allegations that are forgotten a few weeks later. The Political arena affords less room to maneuver with respect to remembering your past statements.

All of the things he may have been able to get away with as a businessman and entertainer aren't there for a politician, and that people have time to think through his motivations. What is his evidence? Was there a FISA warrant to tap a member of his campaign with respect to the Russia investigation? If that is indeed the case, by conflating 'his' phone being tapped to anyone in his campaign organization, he inextricably binds himself to those in his campaign who had contacts with Russians, the contacts of which he said he was never aware.

[_Dr. Shades]

In particular, I think Leftist partisans in many instances are deeply troubled people who have found salvation through an ideology that exculpates their original sins, sins not comprised of race, socioeconomic status, or gender but rather inefficacy, impotency, and an abject lack of import. Their politicking is the 'ism to their existential crisis.

That's food for thought, but could that perhaps be the same mindset that drives crusaders on the right as well as the left? Or, for that matter, hardcore crusaders for any particular cause, political or otherwise?

[_Chap]

... but could that perhaps be the same mindset that drives crusaders on the right as well as the left? Or, for that matter, hardcore crusaders for any particular cause, political or otherwise?

Or just plain bad hombres.