Has William Schryver Left the Church?

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
_grindael
_Emeritus
Posts: 6791
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:15 am

Re: Has William Schryver Left the Church?

Post by _grindael »

There just aren't truly qualified apologists here any more. All driven off by one tactic or another. I know Dr. Peterson was threatened by a (I mean, "with a") lawsuit and with violence from this board.


I really thought you were above this kind of crap, Bot. I've had some tell me that it would be better off if I were dead, but that is simply empty posturing. And driven off by "one tactic or another"?" Rather, they left because their apologetics are simply inane and stupid and they don't like others pointing this out with actual evidence.
Riding on a speeding train; trapped inside a revolving door;
Lost in the riddle of a quatrain; Stuck in an elevator between floors.
One focal point in a random world can change your direction:
One step where events converge may alter your perception.
_Kishkumen
_Emeritus
Posts: 21373
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: Has William Schryver Left the Church?

Post by _Kishkumen »

grindael wrote:I really thought you were above this kind of crap, Bot.


Srsly? That is exactly the kind of crap he is into.

grindael wrote:I've had some tell me that it would be better off if I were dead, but that is simply empty posturing. And driven off by "one tactic or another"?" Rather, they left because their apologetics are simply inane and stupid and they don't like others pointing this out with actual evidence.


Well, yes. I think that, in the main, that is true. I have yet to see an apologetic for Joseph Smith's polygamy that worked for me. Every time you post in response to Brian Hale, it looks worse and worse for the apologetic position. The myth of Joseph Smith, middle-class family man, would be thrice dead and buried if people had half an inkling of the material you have quoted here.

And, what can one really say in response to this? Is there any kind of defense of Joseph Smith's behavior that looks the least bit sympathetic from the perspective of your average, respectable 20-21rst century man or woman? I don't think so.

And one can go down the list: the traditional views of Joseph Smith's revelations, scriptures, moral behavior, polygamy rationale--the whole thing--just crumble in the face of the facts. Sure, one can imagine a new way of seeing these things, but it would take a major reimagining of Mormonism to square any of these factual revelations with a sustainable, modern faith.

I don't see that happening. I see the LDS Church slowly responding as the first-world numbers continue to crater. The LDS Church has no clue whence it came and it has no workable plan for where it is going, other than to hope that their convert baptisms in the third world replenish their numbers, and that their investments pan out well.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_grindael
_Emeritus
Posts: 6791
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:15 am

Re: Has William Schryver Left the Church?

Post by _grindael »

Kish,

I still have to get back to my Spiritual Marriage thread, I have been busy with other things, among them helping Grant Palmer update his chapter on polygamy in his last book. The best part about that is I get to talk to him on the phone often and I wouldn't trade those conversations for anything. He's still on his game and is upbeat and his sense of humor is firmly intact.

Also working on my presentation for the John Whitmer conference in the fall. The evidence is devastating to the apologist narrative and I've committed to writing a book on the subject that I think is much needed. I had a nice conversation with Gary Bergera recently who was very encouraging.

I love coming here when I need a break to read all the interesting things that get posted. Thank you again, Shades. You rock.
Riding on a speeding train; trapped inside a revolving door;
Lost in the riddle of a quatrain; Stuck in an elevator between floors.
One focal point in a random world can change your direction:
One step where events converge may alter your perception.
_Kishkumen
_Emeritus
Posts: 21373
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: Has William Schryver Left the Church?

Post by _Kishkumen »

Best wishes in your work. This all sounds exciting.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Dr. Shades
_Emeritus
Posts: 14117
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:07 pm

Re: Has William Schryver Left the Church?

Post by _Dr. Shades »

grindael wrote:Thank you again, Shades. You rock.

Why, thank you! And we all owe you a debt of gratitude thanks to your exclusive research. :-)
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

--Louis Midgley
_grindael
_Emeritus
Posts: 6791
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:15 am

Re: Has William Schryver Left the Church?

Post by _grindael »

Dr. Shades wrote:
grindael wrote:Thank you again, Shades. You rock.

Why, thank you! And we all owe you a debt of gratitude thanks to your exclusive research. :-)


You know, you can thank Jeremy Runnells for all the polygamy material. He set me on that road. He's such a great guy. Can't say enough good things about him.
Riding on a speeding train; trapped inside a revolving door;
Lost in the riddle of a quatrain; Stuck in an elevator between floors.
One focal point in a random world can change your direction:
One step where events converge may alter your perception.
_grindael
_Emeritus
Posts: 6791
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:15 am

Re: Has William Schryver Left the Church?

Post by _grindael »

Grant Palmer had a chemo treatment and is feeling very low today, and I would humbly ask you my friends here to keep him in your thoughts and prayers. Thank you.
Riding on a speeding train; trapped inside a revolving door;
Lost in the riddle of a quatrain; Stuck in an elevator between floors.
One focal point in a random world can change your direction:
One step where events converge may alter your perception.
_Kishkumen
_Emeritus
Posts: 21373
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: Has William Schryver Left the Church?

Post by _Kishkumen »

grindael wrote:You know, you can thank Jeremy Runnells for all the polygamy material. He set me on that road. He's such a great guy. Can't say enough good things about him.


He really is a good guy. The treatment he has received from apologists is shameful.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Lemmie
_Emeritus
Posts: 10590
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:25 pm

Re: Has William Schryver Left the Church?

Post by _Lemmie »

grindael wrote:Grant Palmer had a chemo treatment and is feeling very low today, and I would humbly ask you my friends here to keep him in your thoughts and prayers. Thank you.
Of course. Please let him know there are many here who think very highly of him and wish him well. He is an inspiration.
_Kishkumen
_Emeritus
Posts: 21373
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: Has William Schryver Left the Church?

Post by _Kishkumen »

grindael wrote:Grant Palmer had a chemo treatment and is feeling very low today, and I would humbly ask you my friends here to keep him in your thoughts and prayers. Thank you.


Send our best to Grant. So many of us owe him so much. I am sorry to hear of his struggle.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
Post Reply