The 25th Amendment Solution for Removing Trump

[_AmyJo]

Written more than one month ago by a NYT reporter - and the proof keeps on compounding. The 25th Amendment is the solution to an untenable situation for this country. When will our leaders wake up and take charge? Why wait for things to deteriorate further with our allies and adversaries in the world?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/opin ... trump.html

[_EAllusion]

The 25th amendment is suited for presidents who become incapacitated by illness or disability.

Impeachment and removal remains the remedy for a mad king.

If Trump were 25th amendmented, he could simply fire his cabinet and come back. Congress can override that, but they need the same number of votes they'd need to remove him via the impeachment process.

[_AmyJo]

It is picking up steam in Congress to invoke the 25th Amendment:

"....21 House Democrats, including the ranking member of the House Judiciary Committee, are now pushing an equally radical alternative: They are backing a bill that would create a congressional “oversight” commission that could declare the president incapacitated, leading to his removal from office under the 25th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

At 12:56 p.m. Thursday, barely four hours after Trump tweeted attacks against MSNBC cable host Mika Brzezinski in crude, personal terms, Rep. Jamie Raskin, D-Md., the chief sponsor of the bill, sent out an email to his colleagues, urging them to get behind the measure, writing it was of “enduring importance to the security of our nation.”

“In case of emergency, break glass,” Raskin told Yahoo News in an interview. “If you look at the record of things that have happened since January, it is truly a bizarre litany of events and outbursts.” Asked if Trump’s latest tweets attacking Brzezinski and her co-host Joe Scarborough — which were roundly condemned by members of both parties as beneath the dignity of his office — strengthened the grounds for invoking the 25th Amendment, Raskin replied: “I assume every human being is allowed one or two errant and seemingly deranged tweets. The question is whether you have a sustained pattern of behavior that indicates something is seriously wrong.” (Brzezinski and her Scarborough’s response to Trump’s tweets ran in today’s Washington Post under the headline, “The President is not well.” White House spokeswoman Sarah Huckabee Sanders defended Trump’s tweets Thursday, saying he “fights fire with fire.”)

To be sure, even Raskin acknowledges Congress and the country are in largely uncharted waters. The 25th Amendment was adopted in 1967 in response to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy and past presidential medical crises — including the heart attacks of Dwight Eisenhower and the illnesses of Franklin D. Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson — to deal with instances where presidents become incapacitated and unable to perform the duties of their office.

One of its provisions, known as Section 4, empowers the vice president along with a majority of the Cabinet to make a determination that a president is “unable to discharge the powers and duties” of the office, and then provide it in writing to Congress, resulting in the president’s removal. It’s a step that has never been taken.

But Raskin, a former constitutional law professor, has seized on some largely overlooked language in Section 4 as the basis for his bill. It turns out it doesn’t only have to be the Cabinet that makes a finding of presidential incapacity. The section also permits “such other body as Congress may by law provide” — along with the vice president — to reach the same conclusion.

Yet in the 50 years since the 25th Amendment took effect, Congress has never set up such a body. Raskin’s bill would do so. It calls for the creation of an “Oversight Commission on Presidential Capacity.” The commission would be a nonpartisan panel appointed by congressional leaders composed of four physicians, four psychiatrists and three others — such as former presidents, vice presidents or other former senior U.S. government officials. The commission, if directed by Congress through a concurrent resolution, would be empowered to conduct an examination of the president “to determine whether the president is incapacitated, either mentally or physically.”

The 25th Amendment itself says nothing about the guidelines for making such a determination, much less what kinds of perceived mental illnesses would make a president unable to perform his duties. But Raskin, who first introduced his bill in April, said that he’s been getting increased interest in the legislation among colleagues, including Republicans who have privately approached him about it on the House floor. “I’ve had tons of inquiries and lots of colleagues have been talking to me about it,” he said. “I’m convinced most Americans believe we are living in a very strange reality. . . . The question is, what are the escape routes we have, and the 25th Amendment is one of them.”....

.... Raskin is undeterred. “The question is, where are we going to be six months, 12 months, 18 months from now? The presidency is considered extremely stressful for people with the strongest mental health. We need to be prepared for all eventualities.”"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/bill-create- ... 21145.html

[_The CCC]

I see no evidence that his Cabinet is willing to do that. Do you?
SEE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ARgUIpM6f0

[Guest]

I see no evidence that his Cabinet is willing to do that. Do you?

From reading this report (above,) it appears to be behind the scenes, including by some of Trump's closest advisors.

Even were the cabinet not to go for that, there is a provision that Ruskin is seeking to invoke where the Congress can override the Cabinet.

One glaring problem with Trump's closest top advisors is he carefully chose his own family members to serve at his command. They would be the holdouts in any showdown out of loyalty to Ivanka's father and Jared's FIL. Trump had enough vision to see into the future about the possibility and now quite real probability given his dereliction of duties, that there will be backlash across the board for his incompetence.

Our country is in grave danger not from without, but within. Trump himself is an enemy of a free Republic and democratic government. He can't function as Commander in Chief when his personal mental issues and demons are controlling every move he makes, on Twitter and God forbid, the nuclear codes.

[_Jersey Girl]

Trump had enough vision to see into the future about the possibility and now quite real probability given his dereliction of duties, that there will be backlash across the board for his incompetence.

What dereliction of duties?

[_subgenius]

I see no evidence that his Cabinet is willing to do that. Do you?

From reading this report (above,) it appears to be behind the scenes, including in Trump's closest advisors.

un-substantiated, unreferenced, and unfounded claims in an op-ed piece are hardly to be considered as accurate or factual....it only "appears" to be whatever you want to appear to be, and that is what the author is hoping for.

Even were the cabinet not to go for that, there is a provision that Ruskin is seeking to invoke where the Congress can override the Cabinet.

won't happen...ironically you sound like one those Obama birth certificate people....see how you are now?

One glaring problem with Trump's closest top advisors is he carefully chose his own family members to serve at his command.

You mean his daughter and son-in-law? or were you talking about the Kennedy brothers?....you realize they are not cabinet members, right?

They would be the holdouts in any showdown out of loyalty to Ivanka's father and Jared's FIL. Trump had enough vision to see into the future about the possibility and now quite real probability given his dereliction of duties, that there will be backlash across the board for his incompetence.

nope, just the same futile effort by some old Democrats who are desperate to hold their position given the wholesale butt-kicking Repubs are doling out in election after election....you call it persistence from Dems but everyone sees it as a lack of imagination.

Our country is in grave danger not from without, but within. Trump himself is an enemy of a free Republic and democratic government. He can't function as Commander in Chief when his personal mental issues and demons are controlling every move he makes, on Twitter and God forbid, the nuclear codes.

tone it down there chicken little.
Its been months and none of the butt-hurt dire prophecies have come to pass...try another flavor because the taste of butt-hurt is ruining your palette

[_The CCC]

From reading this report (above,) it appears to be behind the scenes, including in Trump's closest advisors.

Even were the cabinet not to go for that, there is a provision that Ruskin is seeking to invoke where the Congress can override the Cabinet.

One glaring problem with Trump's closest top advisors is he carefully chose his own family members to serve at his command. They would be the holdouts in any showdown out of loyalty to Ivanka's father and Jared's FIL. Trump had enough vision to see into the future about the possibility and now quite real probability given his dereliction of duties, that there will be backlash across the board for his incompetence.

Our country is in grave danger not from without, but within. Trump himself is an enemy of a free Republic and democratic government. He can't function as Commander in Chief when his personal mental issues and demons are controlling every move he makes, on Twitter and God forbid, the nuclear codes.

The 25th Amendment is the process by which the Vice President in connection with the Cabinet remove a sitting President. The President has every opportunity to contest that removal in the Congress. Face it, with Republicans in firm control of all three Branches of Government that isn't going to happen. We are so screwed.

[_AmyJo]

From reading this report (above,) it appears to be behind the scenes, including in Trump's closest advisors.

Even were the cabinet not to go for that, there is a provision that Ruskin is seeking to invoke where the Congress can override the Cabinet.

One glaring problem with Trump's closest top advisors is he carefully chose his own family members to serve at his command. They would be the holdouts in any showdown out of loyalty to Ivanka's father and Jared's FIL. Trump had enough vision to see into the future about the possibility and now quite real probability given his dereliction of duties, that there will be backlash across the board for his incompetence.

Our country is in grave danger not from without, but within. Trump himself is an enemy of a free Republic and democratic government. He can't function as Commander in Chief when his personal mental issues and demons are controlling every move he makes, on Twitter and God forbid, the nuclear codes.

The 25th Amendment is the process by which the Vice President in connection with the Cabinet remove a sitting President. The President has every opportunity to contest that removal in the Congress. Face it, with Republicans in firm control of all three Branches of Government that isn't going to happen. We are so screwed.

There is another provision in the 25th Amendment, Section 4 that would circumvent the Cabinet, were the Congress to step in and declare the president unfit for the office of President. It would still need the VP to sign off on, but not Trump's family or Steve Bannon if the Congress were to go through with it. Keep in mind, this bill is picking up support, it now has 25 members of Congress who have signed onto it. 4 just this past Thursday.

"Raskin, a former constitutional law professor, has seized on some largely overlooked language in Section 4 as the basis for his bill. It turns out it doesn’t have to be the Cabinet that makes a finding of presidential incapacity. The section also permits “such other body as Congress may by law provide” — along with the vice president — to reach the same conclusion.

Yet in the 50 years since the 25th Amendment took effect, Congress has never set up such a body. Raskin’s bill would do so. It calls for the creation of an “Oversight Commission on Presidential Capacity.” The commission would be a nonpartisan panel appointed by congressional leaders composed of four physicians, four psychiatrists and three others — such as former presidents, vice presidents or other former senior U.S. government officials. The commission, if directed by Congress through a concurrent resolution, would be empowered to conduct an examination of the president “to determine whether the president is incapacitated, either mentally or physically.”

[_The CCC]

Amyjo:

I'm certainly no constitutional scholar. But I don't believe it says what you thinks it says.
25th Amendment section: 4

Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.