D&C 20:60 by the power of the Holy Ghost which is in him

[_deacon blues]

".....and he is to be ordained by the power of the Holy Ghost, which is in the one who ordains him." As I was reading D&C 20:60 I was thinking that all the people I remember being ordained, were ordained by the (power of) Melchiezedek priesthood and in the name of Jesus Christ. Is the church today ordaining people the wrong way, or by the wrong power?
Also, what if the person doing the ordaining doesn't have the power (for whatever reason) of the Holy Ghost in him?

[_sock puppet]

Hi, deacon blues. Let's shovel some apologetic crap, shall we? HG is power, priesthood is authority, and Jesus is the name of the one from whom that authority derives. Starting to feel like three card Monty, right?

But I appreciate you quoting D&C 20:60. Let's suppose that the one doing the ordaining has himself previously been ordained to the Melchizedek priesthood--in the name of Jesus. But he's been sinning of late, and the HG has withdrawn from him. Now, in this state of no HG--maybe he bagged a babe (not his wife) a couple days before--he ordains you. How could your ordination be effective if the HG was not in the one who ordained you? There was no 'power' in your ordination?

According to the 2nd Lady in Waiting, Dallin H Oaks (October 1996)
“''The Spirit of the Lord doth not dwell in unholy temples' (Hel. 4:24; see also Mosiah 2:36–37; 1 Cor. 3:16–17). Even though we have a right to his constant companionship, the Spirit of the Lord will dwell only with us when we keep the commandments. He will withdraw when we offend him by profanity, uncleanliness, disobedience, rebellion, or other serious sins."

So maybe the M priesthood holder that ordains you didn't have the HG in him, and no HG octane power in his tank, when ordained you because he swore like a sailor when he saw that he had locked his keys in his car a few minutes before, and had to call his wife to bring him the extra set of keys.

Whatever the cause, the HG was not in him when he ordained you. It was without the HG's power. Your ordination did not work. You can't drive your car down the road if there's no engine and fuel in it to power it. You weren't ordained if the ordainer did not have the HG in him.

[_deacon blues]

Thanks S.P. If one holds a black and white viewpoint, or even a "Great Apostasy" viewpoint I may have never held the priesthood if the person ordaining me had a cup of coffee the day before. Men have been denied the opportunity of blessing their children for as much, or less.

However, I suspect that most apologists would say, the ordinance would still stand, since to say otherwise would cause considerable confusion. In reality, its not the Holy Ghost, but rather, the temple recommend, that would determine whether the ordination could be validly performed or not. This might be one reason, Jesus didn't apparently use temple recommends during his time on earth.

[_Nightlion]

".....and he is to be ordained by the power of the Holy Ghost, which is in the one who ordains him." As I was reading D&C 20:60 I was thinking that all the people I remember being ordained, were ordained by the (power of) Melchiezedek priesthood and in the name of Jesus Christ. Is the church today ordaining people the wrong way, or by the wrong power?
Also, what if the person doing the ordaining doesn't have the power (for whatever reason) of the Holy Ghost in him?

People ought to be careful how they take the name of the Lord in their lips. When they are simply mouthing the expression of 'in the name of Jesus Christ' and were not moved upon by the Holy Ghost to utter that statement, then they have taken the name of the Lord in vain. When you prophesy in the name of Jesus Christ and were at the same moment moved upon by the power of the Holy Ghost to utter that statement then you have manifested the mind and will of God.

The LDS is flush with hypocrisy using the name of the Lord in all that they do. It adds to the heavy condemnation that they carry moment to moment pretending to be saints and having some right to Zion, priesthood, temple work, or offices and especially HIGH OFFICE in the church, SAYING only and not doing according to that which is written......D&C 84:49-59.

As inferred in this revelation you must come unto Christ and take his name to GET the gift and power of the Holy Ghost. To come unto Christ acceptably and such that the Father will give you the promise of the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost....Act 1, you must FORSAKE the world.

Since LDS seek all the world first and last and are lifted up in the pride of what they count for excellence which is wholly of the world it follows that they never get the gift and power of the Holy Ghost. ZION WEEPS.

[_sock puppet]

I suspect that most apologists would say, the ordinance would still stand, since to say otherwise would cause considerable confusion. In reality, its not the Holy Ghost, but rather, the temple recommend, that would determine whether the ordination could be validly performed or not. This might be one reason, Jesus didn't apparently use temple recommends during his time on earth.

So it's a clerical matter. One can lie. Get a temple recommend. It's signed. So they count the ordinance even if not powered by the HG--contrary to their scripture--so long as there's a piece of paper involved somewhere.

This dialogue comes to mind from the 1979 film, Apocalypse Now:
Kurtz: I expected someone like you. What did you expect? Are you an assassin?
Willard: I'm a soldier.
Kurtz: You're neither. You're an errand boy, sent by grocery clerks, to collect a bill.

Mormons are errand boys sent by grocery clerks, to collect bills. That's their ordinances.