Don Bradley and grindael: JSjr, the last 2 years

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_sock puppet
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Don Bradley and grindael: JSjr, the last 2 years

Post by _sock puppet »

Don, I'm glad you are here posting again too. grindael, you know that I among others are indebted to you for your thorough, quote-filled posts from so many primary sources.

Given you both have a high degree of familiarity with the Nauvoo period, I am wondering what you think was going on with JSjr, and in particular his relationship with the church body of LDS. Here are some mileposts that form the vertebrae of the course of events that I'm wondering about:
  • By spring 1842, JSjr had not produced any new ancient writing translations since he shelved the BoAbr project around November 1835--but at last, Facsimile 1 was published
  • April 19, 1842, Henry Caswall presented a Greek Psalter in Nauvoo, all reports admit of Caswall being there, disputed but Caswall claims JSjr misidentified the writing as ancient Egyptian before slipping out the back door unnoticed
  • John C Bennett's spiritual wifery spins out of control, becomes public, has to be execommunicated (5/11/1842) and becomes outspoken critic of JSjr including exposing the conspiracy that had been hatched and Missouri's governor (Boggs) being shot on 5/6/1842, for which JSjr was arrested
  • Facsimile 3 is published 5/16/1842
  • late 1842, JSjr dusts off the BoAbr project and finishes it in early 1843 and begins publishing it
  • JSjr accuses Sidney Rigdon of disloyalty
  • April-May 1843, the Kinderhook Plates incident, where JSjr identified the first character of one plate at least to be reformed Egyptian and 'translated' using the GAEL as the key
  • Plural marriage 'revelation' in July 1843, and delivers sermon about the persecution of the innocent, a man's foes being they of his own house and secret enemies in Nauvoo, mingling with the LDS
  • 8/13/1843, JSjr gets into a scuffle with Walter Bagby, a tax collector for Hancock County, which involved JSjr choking Bagby who had threated JSjr with a rock
  • JSjr claims evidence of Rigdon's betrayal, call for his removal
  • anti-Mormons meet in Carthage in August, draft charges in hopes that JSjr will be arrested
  • Late September 1843, JSjr forms special council of elders
  • October 1843, the general conference assembly denies JSjr his request to boot Sidney Rigdon from the FP
  • Dec 1843-Jan 1844, Jane Law rebuffs JSjr's advances; JSjr removes Walmart Law from FP, begins moves to excommunicate Walmart Law
  • Jan 21, 1844, JSjr complains of "a great difficulty in getting anything into the heads of this generation it has been like splitting hemlock knots with a Corn doger for a wedge & a pumpkin for a beetle, Even the Saints are slow to understand I have tried for a number of years to get the minds of the Saints prepared to receive the things of God, but we frequently see some of them after suffering all they have for the work of God will fly to pieces like glass as soon as any thing Comes that is Contrary to their traditions, they Cannot stand the fire at all, How many will be able to abide a Celestial law & go through & receive their exhaltation I am unable to say but many are Called & few are Chosen"
  • Feb 1844, discussions held to move the LDS to California or Oregon, create Texas settlement
  • March 10, 1844, the Council of Fifty formed in secrecy,
    and its existence denied
  • March 20, 1844, the 'Voice of Innocence from Nauvoo" published, denouncing polygamy--penned by Emma Smith--calling the spiritual wife system to be John C Bennett's, "a grand scheme of profligates to seduce women", "let polygamy, bigamy, fornication, adultery, and prostitution, be frowned out of the hearts of honest men to drop into the gulf of fallen nature, ‘where the worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched!"
  • March 24, 1844: JSjr claims conspiracies against him orchestrated by William and Wilson Law, Robert D. Foster, Chauncey Higbee, and Joseph H. Jackson
  • April 7, 1844, as part of the King Follett Sermon, " from that time they begin to be enemies, like many of the apostates of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. When a man begins to be an enemy, the hunts me."
  • April 11, 1844, Council of Fifty votes JSjr to be prophet, priest and king
  • May 12, 1844, JSjr warns against false prophets--would prefer to be a fallen true prophet than a false prophet, and "God will always protect me until my mission is fulfilled. I calculate to be one of the Instruments of setting up the Kingdom of Daniel, by the word of the Lord, and I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world"
  • May 25, 1844, JSjr indicted for adultery
  • May 26, 1844, proclaims he has but one wife, Emma,
    and " If they want a beardless boy to whip all the world, I will get on the top of a mountain and crow like a rooster; I shall always beat them _ when facts are proved, truth and innocence will prevail at last. My enemies are no philosophers; they think that when they have my spoke under, they will keep me down_ but for the fools. I will hold on, and fly over them. God is in the still small voice _ in all these affidavits, indictments it is all of the devil_ all corruption. Come on ye prosecutors, ye false swearers, all hell boil over, ye burning mountains roll down your lava, for I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole^ church together since the days of Adam _ a^large majority of the whole have stood by me:- neither Paul, John, Peter nor Jesus never did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as me _ the followers of Jesus ran away from him, but the Latter Day Saints never ran away from me yet."
  • May 27, 1844, at Artois Hamilton's hotel, JSJr was told of conspiracy against him, orchestrated by Charles Foster out of Carthage
  • The Nauvoo Expositor exposes JSjr's secrets on June 7, 1844
  • June 10, 1844--JSjr orders the Expositor destroyed
  • June 12 and again June 17, 1844, JSjr arrested for causing a riot when having the Nauvoo Expositor destroyed
  • June 23, 1844, JSjr instructed William Clayton to conceal minutes of Council of Fifty by sending them away, burying them, or burning them; Clayton buried them in his garden
  • June 23, 1844, JSjr flees to Montrose,
    Iowa to evade being arrested, but later returns to Nauvoo
  • June 27, 1844, mob murders JSjr

It seems to me that JSjr was losing his grip over the Mormons, his 'top' was slowing down and becoming wobbly and out of control. Quite simply, he could no longer keep his crap together, indulged his ego and thirst to quiet dissenters and the end was inevitable in that time frame even though he was only 38 years old.

You both come at this from different perspectives from one another. Given the abundance of familiarity you each have with the primary sources of Mormonism to at least 6/27/1844, what is your thoughts about what was different in those last two years than the 12 that preceded them?
_Nightlion
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Re: Don Bradley and grindael: JSjr, the last 2 years

Post by _Nightlion »

You want academics to judge a prophet eh? What you get will be wrong.
Why did Jesus escalate offending the Jews? So that they WOULD kill him.
Joseph was doing the same thing. Both he and Hyrum commiserated about those in the Quorum of the Twelve's who obsessed with polygamy. Some had converted many polygamist from the Cochranites in Boston/Maine and sold it to the Druids in England. The lure of a Western Empire and the plurality of wives was that all a Druid could ask for. Then they misconstrued becoming a god and the Druids go ape_____.

A prophet's greatest challenge is to get hypocrisy out of the way. The American Protestants refused to repent at a Zion caliber of wholly forsaking the world sufficient to get the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost. This was the entire weakness of the Restoration. It is why every Zion Thing Joseph attempted failed. His name was to be had for both good and evil among all nations. The good was what he actually did and the evil was the wicked use of The Restoration for hypocrisy to reign. With no spiritual qualification men have since set themselves apart for all that the Restoration spoke of and much of what it did not speak to. The high wickedness of the LDS Church's mis-administration of the gospel, giving that which is forbidden to all without discrimination has raised up the single greatest spiritual offense in all the world. (3 Nephi 18:27-30, D&C 84:49-59, 3 Nephi 16;10)

Joseph and Hyrum could both see hypocrisy's ruin of the Restoration and wanted no part of it.

Joseph asked Heber C. Kimball for his wife just to test him. William Law simply failed the test. Joseph already knew that they wanted to kill him. Law advertised treason against Joseph Smith. If Joseph wanted to die his death wish to have the Nauvoo Expositor destroyed was all about it. Why did he not simply refute everything as he boasted he could do with clerks recording his every act for years?

For the last three years I have a record of all my acts and proceedings, for I have kept several good, faithful, and efficient clerks in constant employ; they have accompanied me everywhere, and carefully kept my history, and they have written down what I have done, where I have been, and what I have said; therefore my enemies cannot charge me with any day, time, or place, but what I have written testimony to prove my actions; and my enemies cannot prove anything against me. (LDS History of the Church 6:409)


Another indictment has been got up against me [the polygamy indictment]. It appears a holy prophet [William Law] has arisen up, and he has testified against me [causing the polygamy indictment to be brought forth].... God knows, then, that the charges against me are false.

I had not been married scarcely five minutes, and made one proclamation of the Gospel, before it was reported that I had seven wives. I mean to live and proclaim the truth as long as I can.

This new holy prophet [William Law] has gone to Carthage and swore that I had told him that I was guilty of adultery. This spiritual wifeism! Why, a man dares not speak or wink, for fear of being accused of this.... William Law ... swears that I have committed adultery. I wish the grand jury would tell me who they [the alleged wives] are—whether it will be a curse or blessing to me....

A man asked me whether the commandment [revelation] was given that a man may have seven wives; and now the new prophet has charged me with adultery.... Wilson Law [William's brother] also swears that I told him I was guilty of adultery.... I have rattled chains before in a dungeon for truth's sake. I am innocent of all these charges, and you can bear witness of my innocence, for you know me yourselves.... What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one.

I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago [when charged with polygamy shortly after his marriage to Emma Hale]; and I can prove them all perjurers. (LDS History of the Church 6:410–411; italics added)


I figure that D&C 132 was originally Joseph's revelation about inquiring about ancient patriarchs. I also figure Brigham Young had his way with it before he published it seven years after the death of the martyrs.
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_Philo Sofee
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Re: Don Bradley and grindael: JSjr, the last 2 years

Post by _Philo Sofee »

"Nightlion"
You want academics to judge a prophet eh? What you get will be wrong.


Yes we want academics, because the religion skews everything. One cannot trust what is skewed in agenda driven discussion. One must have actual evidence, confirmable evidence. Or, we can all just go hike in the mountains and imagine they teach us.
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_Kishkumen
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Re: Don Bradley and grindael: JSjr, the last 2 years

Post by _Kishkumen »

The ideas of believers, academics, and believing academics all have their place. Everyone, regardless of who they are and what they believe, can learn from people with views different from their own.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Nightlion
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Re: Don Bradley and grindael: JSjr, the last 2 years

Post by _Nightlion »

Philo Sofee wrote:"Nightlion"
You want academics to judge a prophet eh? What you get will be wrong.


Yes we want academics, because the religion skews everything. One cannot trust what is skewed in agenda driven discussion. One must have actual evidence, confirmable evidence. Or, we can all just go hike in the mountains and imagine they teach us.


Name a 'religion' today that is not all about them academics. Mormonism is right up there. And of course all academia is skewless :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
The Apocalrock Manifesto and Wonders of Eternity: New Mormon Theology
https://www.docdroid.net/KDt8RNP/the-apocalrock-manifesto.pdf
https://www.docdroid.net/IEJ3KJh/wonders-of-eternity-2009.pdf
My YouTube videos:HERE
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