LDS prof. fired from BYU over LGBT support Facebook post.

[_ClarkGoble]

It was naïve of the BYU-Idaho Professor to believe that the Church would ever sanction freedom of thought or speech in one of its institutions.

They actually have to sign a document acknowledging the requirements.

[_ClarkGoble]

For clarification, does one have to believe in the Church to be able to teach at BYU?

If one is a member then one has to have a current temple recommend and a few associated things. There are different requirements for non-Mormons.

[_I have a question]

For clarification, does one have to believe in the Church to be able to teach at BYU?

If one is a member then one has to have a current temple recommend and a few associated things. There are different requirements for non-Mormons.

Thanks.

In the U.K. a policy where people in similar roles were held to differing levels of disciplinary thresholds based on religious belief, would be deemed against emplymemt law and the employer could be (rightly) taken to an employment tribunal. Even if the employees themselves had gone into their employment knowing the differentiation. Any employment policy that differentiates based on gender, age, race or religion would be classed as discriminatory.

[_I have a question]

Here's the statement in full.

In honor of LGBT Pride Month, I thought I would reveal some things in the name of authenticity. I’m currently a member of the LDS Church. This organization has openly and forcefully opposed same-sex relationships and legalized same-sex marriage. They pushed members in California to fight against Prop 8, and had a policy claiming that same-sex relationships were a sin and discouraged individuals from participating in them. In the past, the Church was a facilitator for adoptions. They ended this part of the organization to avoid having to deal with adoption requests from same-sex couples. In November 2015, they took their stance further by labeling same-sex couples in the Church as apostates, meaning those found in these relationships would have a disciplinary hearing to determine their membership status; they can either end their engagements in this sinful life, or be excommunicated. The policy also prevents their children from joining the Church until they are 18, with the condition that they disavow their parent’s life style. For an organization that places so much importance on the family unit, this policy sure seems to be attacking a form of that unit. Most Christian faiths label homosexuality as a sin based on archaic writings. A few hateful verses in the Old Testament have led to hundreds of years of prejudice, hatred, violence, and pain. If we’re going to follow the Old Testament, and use it to justify a hateful stance, there are several other things we need to start condemning and punishing. Leviticus 19:19 tells us we can’t wear clothing of two kinds of material… so, basically every clothing item ever has to be burned. The next time you see someone wearing clothes (which is always… so, you’re welcome for the opportunity to show your spiritual superiority), check the tag to see the materials it’s made from. If it’s more than one, tell them they should desire to walk around naked rather than wear clothing made of more than one material! Women, in Leviticus 15, we learn that God purposely made us unclean. When we menstruate, we are unclean for those 7 days. Oh, and anyone or anything that touches us during that time is unclean as well. You aren’t allowed to go to church at that time because you’ll corrupt everything there with your blood flow. Oh, and you know how God also gave us the ability to grow a human inside of us? Well, after a woman has a child, she has a period of impurity and cannot be touched. If it’s a boy, she’s unclean for 40 days. If it’s a girl, she’s unclean for 80 days. As a female, you also are not allowed to read from the scriptures (wait… how am I supposed to know about my impurity rituals then?! I need to know how to make myself pure after my period!..too bad). You also cannot preach in a church (can I use this excuse next time I’m asked to speak in church?) None of this is archaic, sexist, or totally illogical at all though, right? God commanded these things, so we need to make sure we make these into policies as well! What I’m trying convey is that we like to pick and choose from the scriptures, and if we choose to use the Old Testament as a defense for condemning homosexuality… there’s a whole lot more we need to be condemning as well. The Book of Mormon is supposed to be the keystone of the Church, right? It never once mentions homosexuality. What is does mention is that God disposed the practice of polygamy, and the Nephites are brought to repentance for practicing it…. yet, Joseph Smith said God commanded him to practice it. We can’t keep picking and choosing what kind of God we worship, and we can’t keep picking and choosing which commandments of his are to be enforced or not. This is my official announcement and declaration that I believe heterosexuality and homosexuality are both natural and neither is sinful. I will never support the phrase “love the sinner, hate the sin” because that “sin” is part of who that person is. Homosexuality and transgenderism are not sins; if God made us, and those are part of who we are then God created that as well. I realize that my views counter the current day policies of the LDS Church, but I hope that over time the Church will come to see the harm these policies have. Church History shows that the Church has rescinded policies before that weren't doctrinal, and that weren't inspired by the Lord. I hope that this will someday apply to the stance on the LGBT community. I will always and forever stand up for the equality of the LGBT community. Sexuality and gender are not binary, they are on a spectrum and that’s how we were made. Stand up for humanity, love people because of who they are... not despite who they are. Trump can break the tradition of June being LGBT pride month, but I'm still going to celebrate it.. this month and every month to follow.

http://kutv.com/news/local/former-lds-b ... -her-fired

I think the phrase I bolded is an interesting one, the Church is IMHO exceptionally binary in its thinking. And it is this institutional inability to think in terms of areas of grey or in terms of a spectrum, which is at the foundation of The Church's membership issues.

[_moksha]

The teacher in question had been posting at the exmormon subreddit for the past few weeks as "exmofeministq", and if her posts are any indication of her state of belief, she wasn't long for BYU-I anyway...

https://www.reddit.com/user/exmofeministq

This part really stood out:

The hard part about it is I already have depression, which I'm on meds for... and losing my entire support system and trying to find my identity outside of the church has sent me into a huge spiral.

She should have thought of that before she let her sense of doing what is right get in the way of her pragmatic need for acceptance and conformity. When in Rome make sure the collar is securely fastened around your neck and when in Rexburg make sure the electrode cap is working properly.

[_sunstoned]

The job market in academia is tight right now. It has always been tight.

At the risk of a derail, I am going to ask this question to the esteemed faculty on this forum: I teach at a state university, which is has the largest student population in the state. It is north of 30K. Several years ago this university did a Nation wide search for a new President. They chose someone who had just received tenure. He was associate professor. He had no management experience. He had never been a chair, never been a dean, and did not have any industry experience. Yet he was chosen to be the new president. Have any of you in your academic careers experienced this? According to our HR guidelines, this person would not quality to apply for a dean position, yet because he is the son of a G.A. , He became our president of state school in Provo county.

[_ClarkGoble]

In the U.K. a policy where people in similar roles were held to differing levels of disciplinary thresholds based on religious belief, would be deemed against emplymemt law and the employer could be (rightly) taken to an employment tribunal. Even if the employees themselves had gone into their employment knowing the differentiation. Any employment policy that differentiates based on gender, age, race or religion would be classed as discriminatory.

Religious freedom is viewed differently in each country partially due to the very different histories. (The UK had a rather famous state religion with a rather bloody history over the issue -- whereas the US was founded on some degree of state/church separation although the meaning of that has definitely evolved)

More or less within the US the perception is that churches to have church schools have to be able to have some degree of religious requirements. Exactly where that ends and normal employment law begins is still a matter of great debate and legal challenges. Thus the lawsuits over some Catholic workplaces having to offer birth control. However while battle rages over exactly where the lines ought be, by and large most people think there should be the potential for religious schools with some degree of religious orthodoxy for hires.

[_ClarkGoble]

The job market in academia is tight right now. It has always been tight.

At the risk of a derail, I am going to ask this question to the esteemed faculty on this forum: I teach at a state university, which is has the largest student population in the state. It is north of 30K. Several years ago this university did a Nation wide search for a new President. They chose someone who had just received tenure. He was associate professor. He had no management experience. He had never been a chair, never been a dean, and did not have any industry experience. Yet he was chosen to be the new president. Have any of you in your academic careers experienced this? According to our HR guidelines, this person would not quality to apply for a dean position, yet because he is the son of a G.A. , He became our president of state school in Provo county.

Have people had complaints about Holland's stint as President? Honest question - while I follow local politics I've not really heard any complaints as all. If anything it seems like he's managed UVU's growth in a pretty spectacular fashion. I honestly didn't expect UVU to develop as well as it has with so few problems. Especially with the huge number of new buildings and increasing the student population by something like 50%.

The only real criticism I've seen was (ironically) complaints over a friend of the court brief he participated in over the gay marriage issue back around 2014.

But particularly how Holland managed to really build up the science departments including getting the state to build new buildings was pretty unexpected to my eyes.

My understanding is that while most you outline was true and it was very unusual, people thought he had the personality skills and connections to manage the difficult course of growth, dealing with the state legislature, and managing the new departments in the shift from a vocational school to an university. It seems pretty clear with hindsight that he definitely had those skills. I'm sure the fact that he'd worked in the Utah government with many connections with Leavitt and others aided there. The only place I'd really quibble is saying he lacked management background. He was chief of staff for the company Monitor Group. Maybe not that big of experience, but still experience.

[_ClarkGoble]

Especially with the huge number of new buildings and increasing the student population by something like 50%.

Is that a good thing? There seems to be a diploma mill trend going around.

I'm a bit of a college snob, so I'm probably not the best to ask. But they have hired some really good people there with the move to becoming an university. Brian Evenson became physics dean and he'd been an excellent dean at BYU when I was there.

What I had figured was that there would be more conflict between the traditional vo-tec stuff like the paramedic training and the university oriented departments. But I've not seen that. I have a few friends and employees who go there (my factory is only a couple blocks away from it) and they all seem really happy with it. Clearly it's not a top tier school like University of Utah or BYU or even Utah State. But it seems to be pretty solid as a lower tier university. I'm sure it'll improve with time although I'm not sure the state necessarily wants it to really compete with University of Utah or Utah State.

But effectively Holland made an university nearly from scratch and had to do some amazing infrastructure building. I've gone up on campus for various conferences at time and it's pretty impressive what they've done in a remarkably short time period. Basically less than a decade.