A good move

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_Xenophon
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Re: A good move

Post by _Xenophon »

A nice little opinion piece from someone who served.

As a former Marine Corps Scout-Sniper (STA platoon, Echo Co., 2nd battalion, 4th Marines, 2nd Marine Division), I lived every day driven by the sense of honor, duty and courage that comes from putting on our nation’s uniform. I served alongside other brave Americans who wore that uniform with as much pride as I did, and despite representing different ethnic backgrounds, faiths, genders, and perspectives, when we put that uniform on, we were Americans.

As a transgender member of the military, giving myself to my country also meant suppressing who I was, and spending every minute terrified I would get “caught” or outed. Getting caught would mean that I would have been involuntarily discharged.


President Trump is the master of distraction, and lashing out against transgender Americans strikes me as a classic Trump attempt to distract from issues he’d rather not talk about, at the detriment of our military.

Trump’s tweet came on the exact anniversary that President Truman issued an executive order to integrate the military — a decision that was put off for years because it was feared to be a “distraction.”

Today, under the leadership of a man who clearly does not get what makes our American military families tick, this sadly comes as no surprise.
"If you consider what are called the virtues in mankind, you will find their growth is assisted by education and cultivation." -Xenophon of Athens
_Maksutov
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Re: A good move

Post by _Maksutov »

MeDotOrg wrote:However you feel about transgenders serving in the military, the way this was done was classic Trump. A tweet to change our policy. What happens to all the transgender personnel now serving in the military? Are they are told to get packing today?

The Joint Chiefs are already saying there are no plans to boot out all transgender service personnel.

You would think a self described 'very smart person' at 70 years old would know that you cannot change policy overnight with a tweet. But the disruption of the lives of those serving in the military is the price we pay for the ignorant idiot in the White House, whose sole concern seems to be making himself feel better in the moment.


Trump is not interested in policy or in governing. He is interested in attention and ratings. He holds us all captive with the cliffhangers of real life soap operas and tragicomedy that are apparently real only to some of us. :eek:

People wanted to see what it was like to have a celebrity businessman in power. Now we know.
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_Jersey Girl
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Re: A good move

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Jersey Girl wrote:Let's say that the high end figure of trans active duty is correct, 6K. This will result in a worldwide rotation of military personnel, moving costs, administrative costs for 12K people.

That includes personnel living outside of CONUS on PCS orders AND those who are on deployment.


Local newspaper today estimates the number of trans active duty at 15K.

So make that 30K people affected including their dependents if there are any, and the above doesn't factor in training or cross training to fill MOS vacancies.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
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_Xenophon
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Re: A good move

Post by _Xenophon »

Jersey Girl wrote:Local newspaper today estimates the number of trans active duty at 15K.

So make that 30K people affected including their dependents if there are any and the above doesn't factor in training or cross training to fill MOS vacancies.

From all my reading it looks like that 15k figure is a bit ambitious. I would recommend going with the RAND study for the time being as it was actually requested by the DOD (PDF Warning). They say it is between 1,320 and 6,630 and put the readiness impact at only 10 to 130 soldiers per year.

From what I also understand the study that Mattis requested isn't set to be ready until December so for now the RAND report is the only data we have to go off of.
"If you consider what are called the virtues in mankind, you will find their growth is assisted by education and cultivation." -Xenophon of Athens
_Jersey Girl
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Re: A good move

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Xenophon wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:Local newspaper today estimates the number of trans active duty at 15K.

So make that 30K people affected including their dependents if there are any and the above doesn't factor in training or cross training to fill MOS vacancies.

From all my reading it looks like that 15k figure is a bit ambitious. I would recommend going with the RAND study for the time being as it was actually requested by the DOD (PDF Warning). They say it is between 1,320 and 6,630 and put the readiness impact at only 10 to 130 soldiers per year.

From what I also understand the study that Mattis requested isn't set to be ready until December so for now the RAND report is the only data we have to go off of.


I have no idea where the local paper came up with the 15K figure. I can only say that this town is literally surrounded by military installations. I don't know if they accessed one of the installations for information or nabbed it from some other article.

The RAND study is what I used for the estimated figures in my previous posts.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Xenophon
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Re: A good move

Post by _Xenophon »

A little background on that 15k number

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/sta ... ansgender/

Our rating

Pocan said: "More than 15,000 transgender Americans" are "serving in the military today."

A UCLA study estimated the figure is 15,500, while a more recent study by the RAND Corp. estimated 2,150 to 10,790.

There are no official counts, so Pocan goes too far in flatly stating his figure. But his figure matches one of two prominently cited estimates.

We rate the statement Half True.
"If you consider what are called the virtues in mankind, you will find their growth is assisted by education and cultivation." -Xenophon of Athens
_cinepro
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Re: A good move

Post by _cinepro »

Maksutov wrote:Yeah, let's get rid of the trans people. And the gays. And the Muslims. And the women. Might as well get rid of the Jews and the Atheists and the Catholics and the Mormons, people are uncomfortable around them too...the Bill of Rights doesn't apply to them...whining pussy AntiAmerican snowflakes...



Do you really equate a person's status as a "transgender" with race or religion?

What if it were classified as a medical condition? The armed forces have discriminated based on medical conditions for centuries. It's not making a moral judgement about people with those conditions. It's simply saying "You have specific needs and requirements that we are not capable of handling or willing to handle in the course of operations of our military force."

That being said, I'd like to know the reasoning and input Trump got before making this policy change. If a consensus of military leaders were telling him that the cost and logistics of accommodating transgenders was hurting the military, that's one thing. But if he just came up with it himself or someone outside the military suggested he do it, that's something else.
_Chap
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Re: A good move

Post by _Chap »

cinepro wrote:I'd like to know the reasoning and input Trump got before making this policy change.


Reasoning???

Input????!!!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You're killing me with this irony, cinepro. Please stop, it hurts.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_moksha
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Re: A good move

Post by _moksha »

cinepro wrote:I'd like to know the reasoning and input Trump got before making this policy change.

Trump did not get it from the Pentagon because they were surprised at this announcement.

Where does one usually get their inspiration from when sitting on the toilet at 3 AM tweeting?
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_Jersey Girl
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Re: A good move

Post by _Jersey Girl »

delete
Last edited by Google Feedfetcher on Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
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