MG Board

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_Lemmie
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Re: MG Board

Post by _Lemmie »

Exiled wrote:MG's behavior can be maddening. He probably will never admit that the LDS church is complete nonsense. We all probably have family members who continue to believe the unbelievable like him and they will probably never admit it is false, too. Maybe we need to endure it, unfortunately? Confrontation leads to retrenchment and passive aggressive behavior in some. Some will forever deny that the sun is shining when it clearly is.

However, it is kind of what I expect from Mormons having grown up in the culture like everyone here. We were told over and over again how noble and great we were for being Mormons and given contrary evidence to this false belief, the answer is to dodge and weave in order to justify the silly beliefs. We are a righteous generation for heaven's sake and so it must be true. I used to do the same thing until I decided to be honest with myself. Mormon apologists teach members to lie to themselves and to change the meaning of words, change paradigms, fight scientific reasoning, move the goal posts, and commit many other logical fallacies in the name of saving the Mormon nonsense from being falsified. It can be maddening dealing with them when the conclusion is so obvious and they refuse to admit it. So, it shouldn't be surprising that MG acts the way he does. He probably thinks he is doing God's work.

That's a very astute summing up, Exiled, thank you. It supports the research found in a fascinating 2013 Sunstione article, "Passive-aggression among the Latter-day Saints, " by Michael Stevens. I ran across Stevens' paper when I was trying to understand why this type of behavior seemed so prevalent. Some excerpts from his research:
...[I] separate[d] out both religion and Wasatch Front regional influences on my students’ preferred conflict resolution styles. When this data was taken into account, the passive-aggressive avoidance scores showed meaningful changes. ....In other words, the Mormon students who grew up along the Wasatch Front overwhelmingly trend toward passive-aggression in their response to conflict resolution.

Passive-aggression is the least common response option to conflict among the U.S. population at large and is typically viewed as an inadequate and unconstructive strategy (at least over the long term).... It is generally used by those who would prefer that the conflict simply go away, ...while simultaneously being uninterested in, dismissive, or contemptuous of the needs or concerns of the other.

....[I]n its more insidious forms, passive-aggression can rise to a level of interpersonal hostility and contempt that embodies a “whatever” response to the views and opinions of others. In this way, the passive-aggression label can be misleading; a more accurate description would be passive-hostility or passive-contempt.

A passive-aggressive person will generally deploy such behavioral tactics as: ...ignoring issues that otherwise should be addressed; resisting change and otherwise championing the status quo; citing rules, policies, procedures, or higher authority as both a defensive and offensive tactic; and providing little meaningful or worthwhile feedback.

https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/passiv ... ay-saints/
_DrW
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Re: MG Board

Post by _DrW »

Thanks for the Sunstone article link and commentary, Lemmie. Great find. From the article:
A second possible source for the elevated rates of passive-aggression among Latter-day Saints is its strong culture of obedience and submission. A simple search of general conference talks for the past decade shows obedience to be a constant and recurring theme.

When it comes to passive aggressive behavior, one would be hard pressed to find a better example than that set by the LDS Q-15. These guys claim great (even divine) knowledge, authority, and wisdom.

Yet, when it comes to answering questions about such things as the inconsistencies between "restored" Mormon scriptures and Mormon doctrine, or the glaring contradictions between affirmative LDS teachings and scientific evidence, they practice avoidance with great skill - all the while demanding obedience from their followers.

Their passive aggressive approach to leadership is reflected in such behaviors as their apparently accommodating public statements regarding the LGBT community, followed by supposedly confidential guidance to lay leadership prohibiting baptism of children of same sex couples.

This highly ineffective approach to leadership continues to place the Mormon Church in an increasingly negative light.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
_Dr Exiled
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Re: MG Board

Post by _Dr Exiled »

I always had this "contention is of the devil" nonsense pushed on me by my mother (Thanks Mormon jesus). She used this as a way to stiffle our petty quarrels as children. I understand this better now that I have a son myself and its tempting to shut the kids up when they are fighting with each other. However, it killed a necessary outlet of expression. It also added guilt and shame to natural expression.

Children need to be able to express themselves and resolve their disputes and that necessarily means contention. Adults need the same thing. There shouldn't be anything wrong with disagreement or questioning. However, Mormon authority equates it with sin creating many MG's in the process.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 
_Dr Exiled
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Re: MG Board

Post by _Dr Exiled »

Thanks Lemmie for posting the article. I'm going to read it sometime later today.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 
_Lemmie
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Re: MG Board

Post by _Lemmie »

Exiled wrote:Thanks Lemmie for posting the article. I'm going to read it sometime later today.

My pleasure. It helped me considerably to understand and get past some patterns I grew up with. Of course, not all TBMs are like that, but the differences observed between the geographically centralized TBM group and other groups are definitely statistically valid and well illustrated.
_Dr Exiled
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Re: MG Board

Post by _Dr Exiled »

Passive aggressiveness is definitely a Mormon problem. I became aware of its extent when I moved out of slc to another state where there are enough Mormons to still have psychologists that are aware of the problem. A psychologist friend of mine commented on it as she had a lot of Mormon clients and asked a lot of questions once she found out where I was from. Mormons do avoid conflict like the plague and then act in indirect ways against the person or persons they believe caused the conflict.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 
_Water Dog
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Re: MG Board

Post by _Water Dog »

Last edited by Guest on Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
_Dr Exiled
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Re: MG Board

Post by _Dr Exiled »

Water Dog wrote:
mentalgymnast wrote:Regards,
MG

I've always found this pretentious.


I wonder if MG uses that as a way to blunt his criticisms? If he is polite, then he is not really confrontational when he derails threads and not being like the devil?
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 
_EAllusion
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Re: MG Board

Post by _EAllusion »

Kishkumen wrote:Ludwig was a light unto this board. God bless him.


The man has an extremely distinctive posting style. I'd think people would be able to pick it up in another alias...
_DrW
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Re: MG Board

Post by _DrW »

EAllusion wrote:
Kishkumen wrote:Ludwig was a light unto this board. God bless him.


The man has an extremely distinctive posting style. I'd think people would be able to pick it up in another alias...

Sort of like reincarnation?
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
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