Is there an obligation to a balanced historical narrative?

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_deacon blues
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Is there an obligation to a balanced historical narrative?

Post by _deacon blues »

"Balance is telling both sides. This is not the mission of Official Church Literature or avowedly anti-Mormon literature. Neither has any responsibility to present both sides." Dallin Oaks, CES Symposium, 16 August, 1985.

This quote continues to bother me for several reasons. I think Pres. Oaks was being honest, but I consider that he sees the search for truth as an adversarial contest, such as a courtroom trial.

Consider Oaks statement in the context of the L.D.S. Church requiring the "sacrifice of all things." (Lectures of Faith 6:7) Does the church have an obligation to present a balanced historical narrative of its history?
Last edited by Guest on Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_Fence Sitter
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Re: Is there an obligation to a balanced historical narrativ

Post by _Fence Sitter »

If the church produced both sides of its historical narrative it would not be balanced. It would be heavily in favor of a fraudulent origin
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
_I have a question
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Re: Is there an obligation to a balanced historical narrativ

Post by _I have a question »

deacon blues wrote:"Balance is telling both sides. This is not the mission of Official Church Literature or avowedly anti-Mormon literature. Neither has anyresponsibility to present both sides." Dallin Oaks, CES Symposium, 16 August, 1985.

This quote continues to bother me for several reasons. I think Pres. Oaks was being honest, but I consider that he sees the search for truth as an adversarial contest, such as a courtroom trial.

Consider Oaks statement in the context of the L.D.S. Church requiring the "sacrifice of all things." (Lectures of Faith 6:7) Does the church have an obligation to present a balanced historical narrative of its history?

I think the Church telling its side of the story in a truthful and transparent manner would be a good start. At the point Oaks said that, he knew the Church was portraying its history in an untruthful manner.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_GameOver
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Re: Is there an obligation to a balanced historical narrativ

Post by _GameOver »

Fence Sitter wrote:If the church produced both sides of its historical narrative it would not be balanced. It would be heavily in favor of a fraudulent origin.

This^.

For a Church that claims to be THE ONLY TRUE CHURCH ON THE FACE OF THE WHOLE EARTH, they are full of deceit and dishonesty.
_Res Ipsa
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Re: Is there an obligation to a balanced historical narrativ

Post by _Res Ipsa »

deacon blues wrote:"Balance is telling both sides. This is not the mission of Official Church Literature or avowedly anti-Mormon literature. Neither has anyresponsibility to present both sides." Dallin Oaks, CES Symposium, 16 August, 1985.

This quote continues to bother me for several reasons. I think Pres. Oaks was being honest, but I consider that he sees the search for truth as an adversarial contest, such as a courtroom trial.

Consider Oaks statement in the context of the L.D.S. Church requiring the "sacrifice of all things." (Lectures of Faith 6:7) Does the church have an obligation to present a balanced historical narrative of its history?

As a lawyer, the courtroom model of the search for truth is an easy model to promote. After observing that model in action for a few decades, I’m not persuaded that it is an effective way to find truth. The sheer number of innocent folks who end up on death row is probably the best evidence.

I think that any institution that purports to speak for a higher power should hold itself to a moral duty of fiduciary-like honesty to its members. That includes transparency as to finances and how the leadership operates. Otherwise, as with any other institution, the well being of the members is too easily sacrificed to the interests of the institution.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Is there an obligation to a balanced historical narrativ

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

I mean. Factual, open, honest, and forthcoming are standards I think anyone can expect from an organization that proclaims itself as The One True Church.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_Dr Exiled
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Re: Is there an obligation to a balanced historical narrativ

Post by _Dr Exiled »

One would hope a church that claims it has Jesus' stamp of approval wouldn't hide anything but that hasn't been the case. Their Jesus is secretive and wants a financial empire judging by what the leaders do.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 
_Stem
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Re: Is there an obligation to a balanced historical narrativ

Post by _Stem »

There are no doubt people who could read everything out there about Mormonism, investigate any possible problem or issue, and still remain a faithful follower of the religion. Indeed, there are probably some faithful LDS who have investigated as much as seemingly possible. If the Church were smart it'd put it all out there and let the chips fall where they may. At least then it doesn't have the nasty problem of people getting upset by it's own lies.

There's something really telling about Oak's claim from 30 something years ago. They used to, particularly then, dismissed materials written about Mormonism as anti-Mormon, claiming it is half-truths and misinformation. Thereby keeping members away from those materials. Here he's equating the Church's duty to the same. Use half-truths and misinformation to keep 'em in. It's a weird battle they've waged on the outside of truth.
_I have a question
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Re: Is there an obligation to a balanced historical narrativ

Post by _I have a question »

Stem wrote:There are no doubt people who could read everything out there about Mormonism, investigate any possible problem or issue, and still remain a faithful follower of the religion. Indeed, there are probably some faithful LDS who have investigated as much as seemingly possible. If the Church were smart it'd put it all out there and let the chips fall where they may. At least then it doesn't have the nasty problem of people getting upset by it's own lies.

There's something really telling about Oak's claim from 30 something years ago. They used to, particularly then, dismissed materials written about Mormonism as anti-Mormon, claiming it is half-truths and misinformation. Thereby keeping members away from those materials. Here he's equating the Church's duty to the same. Use half-truths and misinformation to keep 'em in. It's a weird battle they've waged on the outside of truth.


The core of the adult Church population in America and Europe is now a group of people for whom the facts and the truth don’t really matter. There is literally nothing that could happen or be revealed that would make them not be a faithful believing Mormon. Nothing. The Church has been hiding Smiths polygamy...no problem. The Book of Mormon wasn’t translated the way you’ve been taught it happened...no problem. Actually the Church Leaders do get a salary....no problem. City Creek cost $1.5 billion and the Church only donates $40 million a year in total cash, time and materials to humanitarian causes...no problem. The Church hates gay people and makes young people feel like committing suicide...so what.

Heads - the church is true.
Tails - the Church is true.
Lands on its side - the Church is true.

Think about it, South Park told the truth about how the Book of Mormon was translated before the Church did. And that doesn’t give members pause to be sceptical about the integrity of Church leaders.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_Maksutov
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Re: Is there an obligation to a balanced historical narrativ

Post by _Maksutov »

Not if you're a propagandist.
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
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