New Name Noah

[_Xenophon]

I think he is trying to see if removing one's name automatically removes one's name from the local ward list. I've heard complaints that this doesn't happen and that the ex-member still gets contacted.

I can only provide anecdotal evidence and only from the perspective of Clerk and EQ President but in my experience those that have their name removed do not show on the standard ward list. This may not hold true for some higher leadership calling though, as access changes based upon leadership role (perhaps a former bishop/stake pres can provide further insight). The few times I've seen ex-members contacted it is because ward leadership is familiar with the member and make contact on their own or the ex-member requested it.

I'll remain skeptical as to Norton's plan until I see it play out. Surely he doesn't think that proving that ward lists don't remove names will cause members to quit in droves as he suggests in his post?

[_Niadna]

So according to MD&D...NNN is up to something...I am on my way out....he wants names of those on LDS.org..huh..when I come back..you guys be on the ball!!

I've stated this in other forums, but while I like Mike Norton as a person I am not a fan of his tactics...but I will give him this...he has more energy than I do. He wants to see it burn down while I could care less...I'm just grateful I didn't live my entire life and then discover the lie.

Plus if his new secret tactic is to flood TBM's emai's on ward lists with junk anti Mormon e-mail, it will only play into their persecution complex...can't see how this will turn into a win for him.

Craig, I'm REALLY sorry to break this to you, but persecution complex generally requires that NOBODY BE AFTER YOU.

If they are really after you, it's not a 'persecution complex,' it's just 'persecution."

Now me, I've had rocks thrown at me, dogs sicced on me...there's a town in Alabama that you couldn't PAY me enough to visit because if I do, I'll be handcuffed, the dogs will be set out and I'll get thrown to the alligators.

..........well, the woman doing the threatening keeps apologizing to me for 'teasing" about the alligators, so maybe I'm safe there....

Some evangelical so and so put "The deceased is in hell and you will soon follow if you don't leave the devil Mormon church!" pamphlets under the windshields of everybody who attended my husband's funeral.

(OK, THAT was funny....but the guy putting them there wasn't joking)

Lessee....I have been refused a job because I'm a Mormon.
My daughter, 12 at the time, was physically shoved out of a "Christian" bookstore by the clerk who yelled "Mormons aren't Christians and have no business in here!"

I have been called names that would get a LIBERAL fired if s/he used them on anybody, because I"m a Mormon. I have been refused service in a store because I am a Mormon.

I have been told that I have no right to walk down a street where I know that people who might not like Mormons are, and if I do and get attacked, it's my fault.

I'm not going to rehash any history here; this is just stuff that happened to ME. Does any of that rise to the level of the persecution experienced by Jews, or the Christians in the Middle East, or the early Mormons, even?

No.

But it sure doesn't make it irrational to figure that persecution happens.

[_6EQUJ5]

I can't post this to the Mormon Dialogue & Discussion forum, so hopefully someone from there will see this here. NewNameNoah saw that thread and has this to say:

We interrupt this paranoia with a special report: Everyone calm down and don’t get your magic panties in a bunch. I have ZERO intention of submitting resignations for people without their permission. Not only would that be wrong, I’m pretty sure that would be grossly illegal. It’s not even remotely close to what I have in mind. QuitMormon would hate me if I did such a thing and it would be very counterproductive. We now return to your denial already in progress.

Dr. Shades:

I hope that NNN reads my post or that you will pass the information along. But I hope NNN recognizes that his intention to "cull names and phone numbers from Ward/Stake directories" would be a federal crime that carries a prison sentence. If NNN goes through with this he could find himself dealing with serious legal consequences.

I think there are less legally risky ways to cause problems for the LDS Church than to illegally access their systems and give utah law enforcement a legit reason perk up.

[_Res Ipsa]

See also Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and company.

tu quoque is a fallacy...and your opinion of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and company is, well, begging the question.

That's a questionable example of the tu quoque fallacy. It's more like a red herring.

Expressing an opinion on a topic is not an example of the question begging fallacy.

Misuse of logical fallacies is another common tactic used to dismiss a statement without considering its merits.

[Guest]

tu quoque is a fallacy...and your opinion of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and company is, well, begging the question.

What Norton did is not only proven, he brags about it. Nobody questions that his actions were unethical. The only arguments I've seen are whether lousy ethics are acceptable when the goal is desirable enough. You know, the 'ends justify the means" thing?

(shrug) The man did unethical things. He brags about his talent and ability at lying. .....and we should trust him when he claims that if we give him our LDS.org logins, our personal security won't be harmed?

Uh huh.

. . . and of course I'm really 22, a redhead with brilliant green eyes and a figure to die for, with four Phds in physics, chemistry, Linguistics and Biology, and I'm about to graduate from Johns Hopkins Medical school, where during my last year I found a cure for three different cancers, five different hemorrhagic fevers and the common cold.

I mean, really. I said so. Don't you believe me?

. . . (though I USED to be a redhead, a very long time ago . . . )

Oh, I'm not a fan of anything New Name Noah has done. Far from it. I think his methodology is reprehensible and pollutes everything he has to offer.

That said, I was interested to see you condemn the "ends justifies the means" argument that apologists use to justify the failings of Mormonism.

edit: edited out personal information of NNN.

[_Dr Exiled]

I think he is trying to see if removing one's name automatically removes one's name from the local ward list. I've heard complaints that this doesn't happen and that the ex-member still gets contacted.

I can only provide anecdotal evidence and only from the perspective of Clerk and EQ President but in my experience those that have their name removed do not show on the standard ward list. This may not hold true for some higher leadership calling though, as access changes based upon leadership role (perhaps a former bishop/stake pres can provide further insight). The few times I've seen ex-members contacted it is because ward leadership is familiar with the member and make contact on their own or the ex-member requested it.

I'll remain skeptical as to Norton's plan until I see it play out. Surely he doesn't think that proving that ward lists don't remove names will cause members to quit in droves as he suggests in his post?

That was the only thing I could think of that would cause Mr. Naugle more work and was a big project at the same time, whatever "big" means. Anyway, I guess we will see what he is up to in the future.

[_Niadna]

tu quoque is a fallacy...and your opinion of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and company is, well, begging the question.

What Norton did is not only proven, he brags about it. Nobody questions that his actions were unethical. The only arguments I've seen are whether lousy ethics are acceptable when the goal is desirable enough. You know, the 'ends justify the means" thing?

(shrug) The man did unethical things. He brags about his talent and ability at lying. .....and we should trust him when he claims that if we give him our LDS.org logins, our personal security won't be harmed?

Uh huh.

. . . and of course I'm really 22, a redhead with brilliant green eyes and a figure to die for, with four Phds in physics, chemistry, Linguistics and Biology, and I'm about to graduate from Johns Hopkins Medical school, where during my last year I found a cure for three different cancers, five different hemorrhagic fevers and the common cold.

I mean, really. I said so. Don't you believe me?

. . . (though I USED to be a redhead, a very long time ago . . . )

Oh, I'm not a fan of anything New Name Noah has done. Far from it. I think his methodology is reprehensible and pollutes everything he has to offer.

That said, I was interested to see you condemn the "ends justifies the means" argument that apologists use to justify the failings of Mormonism.

edit: edited out personal information of NNN.

I don't think I've ever been a fan of 'the ends justify the means,' whoever uses it. I'm not altogether certain how an apologist under attack CAN use it, frankly...no matter what belief system the apologist is explaining or what the attackers think they are going after.

[_Res Ipsa]

Isn't it LDS scripture? 1 Nephi 4:13.

[_Shulem]

Mike Norton Rocks!

He kicks Mormon temple ass and parades the Masonic tokens and signs which Joseph Smith stole from the Masons. Don't even get me started about the lying Explanations of Facsimile No. 3!

Go down to the Telestial Forum and get a dose of bloody Mormon temple cult rituals.

Just click the link:

SECOND TOKEN OF THE MELCHIZEDEK PRIESTHOOD



bow your head and say, "yes"

[_Polygamy-Porter]

The more I read replies from Niadna, the more I think he is a troll.