Stephen Cranney New "Mormon Scholars Testify" Entry

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_Philo Sofee
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Stephen Cranney New "Mormon Scholars Testify" Entry

Post by _Philo Sofee »

A rather nice entry, and actually more reasonable on science as valid than I expected. And then I got to his information on the Book of Abraham...

In the end, I’m disinclined to believe that Abrahamic records really made it across the millennium accurate and intact before they were written down on papyrus, and I just think that Joseph Smith got it wrong in terms of what the papyri were.

So don't believe what he said now, since, of course, Egyptology has simply trounced any option of Joseph Smith's clear declarations about what the papyri contained. O.K., I'm good with that. But then, who's to say what else he simply muffed? Is this a matter of deciding he muffed stuff when the professionals demonstrate how utterly imbecile the claims are, but keep those that have a fudge factor towards possible authenticity? Is this cafeteria Mormonism we get a whiff of? indubitably!

That being said, some of his takes on Egyptological symbols found in one part of the papyri that we do know very directly about—the facsimiles (the pictures on the papyri) —were, in my opinion better than you would get if you were guessing, and touch on gospel principles through the lens of ancient Egyptology.

Stephen, meet Shulem...Shulem, Stephen...

Many people assume that the whole set of facsimiles interpretations is wrong, if one puts all the “this is what you should think”s aside and objectively examines the parallels themselves, I believe they’re fairly compelling on the whole when compared to the alternative of lucky guessing.


Still drinking the Kool Aid I see...

For example, the image in Facsimile 2 identified by Joseph Smith as the location where God lives is the symbol for the Egyptian creator god;

This is a parallel and evidence?!

similarly, the four gods of the four cardinal directions were identified by Joseph Smith as a symbol of the four cardinal directions,


Stephen Thompson argued otherwise. Ansd Robert Ritner is not so swayed yet either.

a boat identified by Joseph Smith as (among other things) a symbol for one thousand is a boat that in Egyptological mythology is sailed by a god for one thousand cubits, etc.


This old discussion has been thoroughly refuted by both Thompson and Ritner.

If you do not want to believe, none of this forces you into some epistemological corner, but it’s conspicuous enough to open up a space for belief if slam dunk word-for-word perfect translation isn’t assumed.

Unfortunately, no it does not open up any space whatsoever. But thanks for playing the Mormon testimony game.
https://www.fairmormon.org/testimonies/ ... en-cranney
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_Shulem
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Re: Stephen Cranney New "Mormon Scholars Testify" Entry

Post by _Shulem »

Philo Sofee wrote:Stephen, meet Shulem...Shulem, Stephen...


I wonder how this weasel would react if someone called him a slave and chopped his nose off?

Image

Come here, Stephen-boy, I'm going to hack your nose off and let's see how you like it. Hold still!

:twisted:
_Shulem
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Re: Stephen Cranney New "Mormon Scholars Testify" Entry

Post by _Shulem »

Philo Sofee wrote:This is a parallel and evidence?!


It's a parallel bull'seye.

Image
_Shulem
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Re: Stephen Cranney New "Mormon Scholars Testify" Entry

Post by _Shulem »

Many people assume that the whole set of facsimiles interpretations is wrong


Assume? There is no assuming going on.

99.99% of the world popuation to include the world body of Egyptologists KNOW the Explanations are wrong.
_Shulem
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Re: Stephen Cranney New "Mormon Scholars Testify" Entry

Post by _Shulem »

In the end, I’m disinclined to believe that Abrahamic records really made it across the millennium accurate and intact before they were written down on papyrus, and I just think that Joseph Smith got it wrong in terms of what the papyri were.


Joseph Smith would have excommunicated you for apostasy. You have run your founding prophet over with the bus and called him a liar.
_Shulem
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Re: Stephen Cranney New "Mormon Scholars Testify" Entry

Post by _Shulem »

For example, the image in Facsimile 2 identified by Joseph Smith as the location where God lives is the symbol for the Egyptian creator god;


And how about that big phallus between God's legs? What did Joseph Smith have to say about that? Did Smith grasp that?

:lol:
_Shulem
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Re: Stephen Cranney New "Mormon Scholars Testify" Entry

Post by _Shulem »

Philo Sofee wrote:
a boat identified by Joseph Smith as (among other things) a symbol for one thousand is a boat that in Egyptological mythology is sailed by a god for one thousand cubits, etc.


This old discussion has been thoroughly refuted by both Thompson and Ritner.


Looking back, I think my apologetic was well done and quite convincing:

Star Ship 1,000

Image
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: Stephen Cranney New "Mormon Scholars Testify" Entry

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

So, I see that the old approach--i.e., having people with college degrees bear their testimonies--has now been scrapped in favor of a full-blown Mopologetic approach. It's like they gave Cranney a copy of the CES letter and told him to refute it, and "Oh, yeah, if you have time to do a little bit of testimony-bearing, then go ahead and dump that into there, too." Does this mean that FAIRMormon has assumed total control of MST?
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Everybody Wang Chung
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Re: Stephen Cranney New "Mormon Scholars Testify" Entry

Post by _Everybody Wang Chung »

Doctor Scratch wrote:So, I see that the old approach--i.e., having people with college degrees bear their testimonies--has now been scrapped in favor of a full-blown Mopologetic approach. It's like they gave Cranney a copy of the CES letter and told him to refute it, and "Oh, yeah, if you have time to do a little bit of testimony-bearing, then go ahead and dump that into there, too." Does this mean that FAIRMormon has assumed total control of MST?

If FAIR is going to be playing a more prominent role in Mopologetics, maybe it's time to update the Guide To FAIR:

http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/vie ... p?f=1&t=61

On another note, if you scroll down to your Guide To FAIR thread, it has generated almost 40,000 views. Wow!

http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/vie ... tart=30300
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_mentalgymnast
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Re: Stephen Cranney New "Mormon Scholars Testify" Entry

Post by _mentalgymnast »

Doctor Scratch wrote:So, I see that the old approach--i.e., having people with college degrees bear their testimonies--has now been scrapped...


I may not be reading you correctly, but Stephen Cranney appears to have academic training.

Stephen Cranney is a government education and social stratification statistician and an occasional freelance data scientist. He has a joint Ph.D. in Demography and Sociology from the University of Pennsylvania, an M.A. in Demography from University of Pennsylvania, and a B.A. in Political Science from Brigham Young University. His research interests center around education, fertility intentions, sexuality, and the social psychology of religion.
https://www.fairmormon.org/testimonies/ ... en-cranney


Thanks for this link Philo. I hadn't read any entries on this site for quite a while. This one is a keeper.

Regards,
MG
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