Jim Bennett: Standing My Ground - Response to Bill Reel

[_Shulem]

The bottom line is the church is a cult. Jim Bennett said some things that might upset some cult leaders in which they go after him. I wouldn't be surprised if that happend. I'd be a little concerned if I were him.

[_Kishkumen]

I think it is the case that anyone who represents the LDS position in a realistic way is bound to look like he lost the debate. The problem is that the traditional Church position is so unrealistic and idealized that any concession to reality feels like a kick in the gut.

How can that be helped?

I doubt it can. You will continue to see a large number of people who push through by ignoring the less than ideal picture of the LDS Church and its history and focusing on the idealized one that the Church predominantly teaches in its own venues. You will see a somewhat good faith but unsuccessful effort to address the questions of those who doubt. For the most part, those who doubt will eventually find their way to the exit door unless other factors prevent them from doing so (family, employment, etc.).

And, as long as the Church fights against civil rights and fails to protect its children, I will not really care about its decline. The problems with the LDS Church start with the LDS Church. The problems reach back to Joseph Smith, Jr. There are ways of mitigating the problems, but the LDS Church is very poorly equipped to do much more than distract, ignore, or prestidigitate its way around them.

[_reflexzero]

When your entire framework must be conceived through the garment, there is probably a lot of chafing and uncomfortable feelings.

[_Gadianton]

I think it is the case that anyone who represents the LDS position in a realistic way is bound to look like he lost the debate. The problem is that the traditional Church position is so unrealistic and idealized that any concession to reality feels like a kick in the gut.

This is true. I think it's also worse with certain opponents who are going to kick for the groin any chance they get. The problem here isn't so much there is no possible way to prepare for it, but certain instant victory issues like Joseph Smith's young ladies transcend the debate, and all that's needed is to repeat the accusation as much as possible because whatever the response is, there will be a few faithful members who find their way to it who are unaware and some things, once they've been seen, can't be unseen.

I'd almost find it understandable that an apologist doesn't wish to be put in that situation. My hesitation is that even in a totally up-and-up confrontation with Phillip Jenkins they pretty much ran to the hills.

[_Dr. Shades]

Wow, Calm is kind of loosing it over on that board over this. Kind of a melt down and over reaction! (Of course it was not her that put the moderators warning to him in big red letters, right? ) . . . ETA: (And, she's posting more comments in big red letters. Hilarious! Is anyone doubting that she's the moderator doing this???)

Umm, . . . link?

[_Fence Sitter]

Wow, Calm is kind of loosing it over on that board over this. Kind of a melt down and over reaction! (Of course it was not her that put the moderators warning to him in big red letters, right? ) . . . ETA: (And, she's posting more comments in big red letters. Hilarious! Is anyone doubting that she's the moderator doing this???)

Umm, . . . link?

See here.

[_Madison54]

Wow, Calm is kind of loosing it over on that board over this. Kind of a melt down and over reaction! (Of course it was not her that put the moderators warning to him in big red letters, right? ) . . . ETA: (And, she's posting more comments in big red letters. Hilarious! Is anyone doubting that she's the moderator doing this???)

Umm, . . . link?

And here:

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/716 ... 1209889731

She’s now just rambling on and asking if people think she’s being a drama queen. Ummm. Yeah

[_Dr Exiled]

I wonder if Calm's reaction has anything to do with the site being down? Maybe it is being purged of all those "negative" and "anti" comments (disagreements with Calm)?

[_Madison54]

I wonder if Calm's reaction has anything to do with the site being down? Maybe it is being purged of all those "negative" and "anti" comments (disagreements with Calm)?

Just checked and it's down for me too.

She was making a fool of herself (and Bill was being extremely nice and trying to meet her crazy demands), so who knows?

[_Fence Sitter]

I wonder if Calm's reaction has anything to do with the site being down? Maybe it is being purged of all those "negative" and "anti" comments (disagreements with Calm)?

Just checked and it's down for me too.

She was making a fool of herself (and Bill was being extremely nice and trying to meet her crazy demands), so who knows?

I wonder if the site is down because they are trying to eliminate the word "Mormon" from their site description somehow?