Radio Free Mormon: FAIR is FOUL

[_consiglieri]

That's it!

Sethbag!

Thanks for jogging my memory!

[_Analytics]

I just listened to this podcast and it was hilarious and insightful.

The way I follow the on-line Mormon community is at least as sporadic as the way I contribute. This idea has probably been discussed here and I missed it, but the way Bill Reel described his podcast and Sunstone presentation entitled "Flaming Swords and Handshakes" (or something like that) was amazing. Basically, he said let's assume for the sake of argument that Mormonism is 100% true. If it really were true, what should have Joseph Smith done if an angel with a flaming sword appeared to him and commanded him to exercise dominion over the comely daughters and wives of his priesthood associates?

If Mormonism is true (as we are assuming it is), there is only one correct answer: you ask the angel if you can shake his hand, because that is the only way you can know whether it is a real angel, the spirit of a just man made perfect, or the devil as an angel of light. (See D&C 129 https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/129)

So, do we know if Joseph Smith asked to shake the hand of the angel with a flaming sword? If he didn't, Joseph Smith had no way of knowing whether the "administration" of polygamy was really "from God". Given subsequent history, we can be quite sure that God really wasn’t behind the polygamy fiasco. Thus, we’ve solved the mystery—Joseph Smith was commanded to practice polygamy by a “devil as an angel of light” but didn’t know it because he forgot to ask the angel for a handshake.

This idea is an elegant solution to the problem and should become the official position of the church. But it superlatively pisses of the apologists who will maintain that while Joseph Smith wasn't perfect, he would never forget to ask to shake the hand of an alleged angel--even imperfect prophets would never forget to do that.

The reaction of the appologists to this idea as described in the podcast is hilarious.

[_Gadianton]

I just listened to this podcast and it was hilarious and insightful.

The way I follow the on-line Mormon community is at least as sporadic as the way I contribute. This idea has probably been discussed here and I missed it, but the way Bill Reel described his podcast and Sunstone presentation entitled "Flaming Swords and Handshakes" (or something like that) was amazing. Basically, he said let's assume for the sake of argument that Mormonism is 100% true. If it really were true, what should have Joseph Smith done if an angel with a flaming sword appeared to him and commanded him to exercise dominion over the comely daughters and wives of his priesthood associates?

If Mormonism is true (as we are assuming it is), there is only one correct answer: you ask the angel if you can shake his hand, because that is the only way you can know whether it is a real angel, the spirit of a just man made perfect, or the devil as an angel of light. (See D&C 129 https://www.LDS.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/129)

So, do we know if Joseph Smith asked to shake the hand of the angel with a flaming sword? If he didn't, Joseph Smith had no way of knowing whether the "administration" of polygamy was really "from God". Given subsequent history, we can be quite sure that God really wasn’t behind the polygamy fiasco. Thus, we’ve solved the mystery—Joseph Smith was commanded to practice polygamy by a “devil as an angel of light” but didn’t know it because he forgot to ask the angel for a handshake.

This idea is an elegant solution to the problem and should become the official position of the church. But it superlatively pisses of the apologists who will maintain that while Joseph Smith wasn't perfect, he would never forget to ask to shake the hand of an alleged angel--even imperfect prophets would never forget to do that.

The reaction of the appologists to this idea as described in the podcast is hilarious.

okay Bill's stock just went up for me. I agree it's a brilliant observation.

[_Dr Exiled]

Yet another reason why Mormonism is a silly religion.

[_Dr. Shades]

I, too, thought it was an elegant solution, one that I wouldn't have thought of myself in a hundred years.

I'm surprised FAIR didn't jump all over it, since it cleanly erases all the problems attendant to the actual practice of polygamy (if not the original revelation itself, unfortunately).

[_Finn the human]

I don’t recall Joseph saying that he shook Moroni’s hand, or even God or Jesus for that matter. This whole thing could be a Satanic deception right from the get-go.

[_Stem]

I don’t recall Joseph saying that he shook Moroni’s hand, or even God or Jesus for that matter. This whole thing could be a Satanic deception right from the get-go.

I also enjoy the notion that these were all visions, or dreams or something like that. So in vision you see a being and offer to shake his hand to test if he's from God. Whether you feel something or not is all due to whether your brain is wanting you to feel something or not.

" I knew it, and I knew that God knew it, and I could not deny it, neither dared I do it; at least I knew that by so doing I would offend God, and come under condemnation"