LGBTQ Apologetics in Deseret News opinion piece

[_Simon Southerton]

Deseret News published an invited opinion piece on 7th May 2019 by BYU professors Michael Goodman and Justin Dyer.
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900 ... -good.html

The church has been under a lot of pressure due to the dramatic increase in youth suicide in recent years. The opinion piece comes across as a considered analysis of the crisis Utah is currently grappling with, and many Mormons (and some exmormons) are pleased with this measured response. However, make no mistake, the opinion piece is LGBTQ apologetics. This is hardly surprising given the two authors are BYU religion professors. They instinctively want to protect the church they love.

I have been on the receiving end of BYU apologetics for 20 years. When I first published scientific evidence that Middle Eastern DNA had not been found in Native Americans I encountered a barrage of DNA apologetics from Book of Mormon apologists including Sorenson, Peterson (hi Dan), Roper, Tvedtnes, Wyatt, Lindsay, Whiting, Ash, Parr and others. The evidence today is even more damning. Scientists recently searched the entire genomes of 6,500 Latin Americans using over 500,000 DNA markers. There was no trace of pre-Columbian Middle Eastern DNA. Now the Church quietly admits in its DNA essay that Lehite DNA hasn’t been found.

LDS apologists responding to me claimed Southerton 'exaggerates', 'speculates', 'oversimplifies' and his interpretations are 'inaccurate' and 'unsupportable'. They attacked my scientific competence (plant scientist, doesn’t understand population genetics); my understanding of the text of the Book of Mormon and my character. However, when the apologists talked about the DNA science themselves, they used terms like these: ‘careful experimental design’, ‘conservative interpretations’ and ‘conservatism and scepticism’. Lehi’s DNA may not have been Middle Eastern or it may have died out are 'considered' responses to the evidence. Reinterpretations of the Book of Mormon narrative to account for the extinction of Lamanite DNA are 'serious', 'careful' and 'thorough' analyses of the text. These words give the impression critics are careless and lazy, while BYU scientists are scrupulous with the facts.

The authors of the LGBTQ opinion piece use exactly the same terms: 'oversimplification', 'inaccurate', 'exaggerated' and 'speculative' when referring to people drawing any connection between LGBTQ suicide and policies of the LDS Church. But when they themselves are analysing the problem, they use much more professional sounding terms like 'best practise', 'research-based reaction', 'current data', and 'best available data'. This language gives the reader the impression BYU scholars are careful and wise and can be trusted. There couldn’t possibly be a problem with church culture.

Rather than address actual research that undermines their claims, Goodman and Dyer go after the familiar punching bag; the media. Mormons reading their piece will feel reassured that it’s the evil antimormon secular media that’s persecuting the Mormons again. Goodman and Dyer completely overlook two research papers published in a 2016 issue of Dialogue that completely contradict their expressed views. Below is the main finding of the two papers, one by Michael Barker, Daniel Parkinson, and Benjamin Knoll and the other by Benjamin Knoll:

Quote:
“In 2014 (the year the most recent data is available), the % Mormon in a U.S. state is associated with a higher level of youth suicides in that state. This relationship holds even after statistically controlling for other potential causal factors of suicide such as elevation (altitude), rates of gun ownership, rates of serious mental illness, rural vs. urban, state spending on mental health, and a variety of demographic and socioeconomic factors.”
https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-cont ... V49N02.pdf

There are other problems with the opinion piece that are well-worn apologetic tactics. The authors fail to reveal the full extent of the problem. They don’t mention youth suicide rates have increased by over 300% since 2007. Instead, the authors point out that in the year after the 2015 PoX was released, youth suicides dropped by 20%, which they see as evidence in favour of their thesis. A 20% decrease after rates have jumped by 300% isn’t particularly comforting. It means the rate is still about 250% above the 2007 rate. What’s far worse though, is they failed to mention that in 2017 the rate was back up above the 2015 level.

The piece gets more problematic when they imply active participation in the LDS Church has a protective effect on youth. It's pretty obvious to many that the first thing a youth does after experiencing deep homophobia at church is to withdraw from the church. They also attempt to downplay the true number of LGBTQ kids in the suicides based on interviews with impacted families. It is notoriously difficult to glean anything meaningful from these interviews. In many cases families won’t want this sort of information released and in some cases they may not even be aware of the inner turmoil their child is going through.

The youth suicide rate in Utah has tripled since 2007 from about 7 per 100,000 to over 20 per 100,000. The rate in the equivalent US national cohort has increased from 7 to 8 per 100,000 during the same time period. Utah, you have a problem. Some major social change must have occurred between 2007 and 2019. Utah didn’t change altitude, didn’t triple its gun ownership and didn’t become more rural. The increase correlates closely with the Church’s very public opposition to same sex marriage, which began in 2007, the year before Prop 8 in California. This publicity would have led to a significant increase in homophobia at church, school and in some families, resulting in the isolation of gay youth, LDS or otherwise. The Church continued to fight against the legalisation of same-sex marriage for years afterwards. This would have caused a lot of pain in many LDS families. When we had a gay marriage plebiscite in Australia it caused extreme heartache for many in the gay community. As a family with two gay daughters, we felt this acutely.

The LGBTQ apologists want everyone to wait until we have all the evidence and it can be analysed ‘properly’. This is classic apologetics. We will all be dead before we have the sort of data that would satisfy an apologist. We can’t mess with these kid’s lives. There can be no elegant case control study to provide more conclusive data. All we will ever have is correlative epidemiological data, which in this case is overwhelming. Decisions need to be made now on the basis of that data.

[_kairos]

Thanx Simon- really excellent analysis on this horrific problem!

I met Goodman at Ed week a few years ago- he was presented as working in "family life" department and told me he was on the church correlation committee. He addressed those in the church who were doubting certain doctrine issues and he was telling those attending his sessions that for something to be doctrine it had to relate to salvation e.g. the 2 earring so called policy has nothing to do with salvation and thus is not doctrine in any sense; doctrine also has to have been widely taught from the beginning in a unanimous voice by the 12, thus BY's Adam-God was really only taught by BY and not all of the 12 so you can "throw on the ash heap".

He seemed to be a nice enough guy who could sense a lot of Mormons are having doubts and are angrythat the church answers are lacking.

I am pretty sure he has no formal education in the psychology of gay suicides but has been put out on the front lines to try to explain things in an apologetic way. One positive is the church is worried and in its own way is working on the problem. Of course the church will never admit culpability. I actually feel bad that guys like Mike Goodman have drunk so deeply of the kool-aid that is this false religion!

k

[_moksha]

I think of this more as LDS apologetics and not LGBTQ apologetics. The point of this article is to absolve the Church of any culpability when it comes to the suicides of LGBTQ youth in the State of Utah.

While the findings presented by Dr. Southerton contradict this point, the Church will seek to limit responsibility for both PR and legal liability reasons.

[_Meadowchik]

Down to brass tacks: even if causation between the church and suicide cannot be proved, there's this. We have vulnerable populations in Utah and in other LDS communities and the church perpetually engages in poor practices having untrained adults counsel children and youth on a habitual basis. It uses un-vetted volunteers to work with them. And, finally, the church uses extremely unhealthy attitudes about authority in its rhetoric, which undermines good mental heath and can worsen poor mental health.

[_fetchface]

I like the idea of starting with the data and then reaching conclusions after review. However, I don't particularly trust a couple of BYU guys to do that, especially when the answer could be high-profile embarrassment of the church. There are some very strong incentives for them to be biased in their analysis.

[_Kishkumen]

The youth suicide rate in Utah has tripled since 2007 from about 7 per 100,000 to over 20 per 100,000. The rate in the equivalent US national cohort has increased from 7 to 8 per 100,000 during the same time period. Utah, you have a problem. Some major social change must have occurred between 2007 and 2019. Utah didn’t change altitude, didn’t triple its gun ownership and didn’t become more rural. The increase correlates closely with the Church’s very public opposition to same sex marriage, which began in 2007, the year before Prop 8 in California. This publicity would have led to a significant increase in homophobia at church, school and in some families, resulting in the isolation of gay youth, LDS or otherwise. The Church continued to fight against the legalisation of same-sex marriage for years afterwards. This would have caused a lot of pain in many LDS families. When we had a gay marriage plebiscite in Australia it caused extreme heartache for many in the gay community. As a family with two gay daughters, we felt this acutely.

Time for the LDS Church to retire from the culture wars. The cost of their participation has been too high.

[_Dr Exiled]

It seems that their raison d'etre has been to be banner boy for the culture wars in terms of same sex marriage. It'll be hard for them to leave. Instead of dealing with actual issues, the repo party (lds party) chose to paint their policies as religious in nature and the bozos at 47 E. South Temple jumped in with both feet. I think the push against same sex marriage was where those clowns thought they could carve out a niche and be relevant, or "prophetic" in their minds for surely in the 80's when this started, it was a choice and not biological. So, fighting against satan was surely the correct move. Who would have thought that those pesky atheist scientists would have found that it was biological all along? Now, after the resounding defeat in the Supreme Court, our bozos chose to double down and invent an attack on "religious freedom" a la the attack on christmas that Fox pushed for so many years and formulate the disastrous Nov 2015 policy that probably caused more suicides.

They should certainly get out of politics but religion and politics are so close, how can that happen? They think anyone who goes against their political views is really attacking their "religious freedom." And make no mistake, 80-90 year old bozos don't change that easily. They are so used to their clown suits that I don't think they can change.

Outside pressure always works when dealing with the church as we recently saw with the welcomed change. The pressure must continue. They must continually be called out for their nonsense. Missionary work must come with huge disclosures so an informed public can know what these bozos are about prior to making a life change that costs future retirement savings.

[_Mormonicious]

Your forgetting it is Mormon man god and Mormon bastard jebus' right to HATE the LGBTQ. See https://www.ksl.com/article/46551099/la ... y-concerns

Leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints released a statement Monday morning that opposes the Equality Act over concerns of religious liberty.

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is deeply concerned that the ongoing conflicts between religious liberty and LGBT rights is poisoning our civil discourse, eroding the free exercise of religion and preventing diverse Americans of good will from living together in respect and peace," the statement reads.

The Equality Act is a bill currently in Congress that would amend the Civil Rights Act to prohibit discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity in employment, housing, public accommodations, public education, federal funding, credit and the jury system. The bill would essentially require all states to abide by certain discrimination laws on the basis of both sexual orientation and gender identity.

So what ever they present as FACT is FACT.

[_Simon Southerton]

Thanx Simon- really excellent analysis on this horrific problem!

I met Goodman at Ed week a few years ago- he was presented as working in "family life" department and told me he was on the church correlation committee. He addressed those in the church who were doubting certain doctrine issues and he was telling those attending his sessions that for something to be doctrine it had to relate to salvation e.g. the 2 earring so called policy has nothing to do with salvation and thus is not doctrine in any sense; doctrine also has to have been widely taught from the beginning in a unanimous voice by the 12, thus BY's Adam-God was really only taught by BY and not all of the 12 so you can "throw on the ash heap".

Piles of sarcasm ahead.
This sort of callous indifference to the unnecessary pain caused by "policies" gives me the sheets. "Those silly kids worrying about their ETERNAL salvation due to an extra earring. Hahahaha. But at least I have my secure BYU salary." The vast majority of Mormons wouldn't have a clue where a policy ends and doctrine begins. But how reassuring that Goodman does. If this is what the senior leaders believe then say it from the pulpit in General Conference.

I am pretty sure he has no formal education in the psychology of gay suicides but has been put out on the front lines to try to explain things in an apologetic way. One positive is the church is worried and in its own way is working on the problem. Of course the church will never admit culpability. I actually feel bad that guys like Mike Goodman have drunk so deeply of the kool-aid that is this false religion!
k

The Church pays his salary. They have bought his loyalty. He will defend.