Eternal polygamy, more wonderful than you imagine. Oaks.

[_I have a question]

My dear brothers and sisters, a letter I received some time ago introduces the subject of my talk. The writer was contemplating a temple marriage to a man whose eternal companion had died. She would be a second wife. She asked this question: would she be able to have her own house in the next life, or would she have to live with her husband and his first wife? I just told her to trust the Lord.

I continue with an experience I heard from a valued associate, which I share with his permission. After the death of his beloved wife and the mother of his children, a father remarried. Some grown children strongly objected to the remarriage and sought the counsel of a close relative who was a respected Church leader. After hearing the reasons for their objections, which focused on conditions and relationships in the spirit world or in the kingdoms of glory that follow the Final Judgment, this leader said: “You are worried about the wrong things. You should be worried about whether you will get to those places. Concentrate on that. If you get there, all of it will be more wonderful than you can imagine.”

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... s?lang=eng

What is interesting about Mr Oaks reply to the first letter he mentions, is that he knows exactly the situation in the eternities for someone sealed to more than one wife. After all, it applies to him directly. Here is the sealing prayer, which explains the conditions that each plural wife and her polygamous husband will be expected to live within...

Brother _[last name]_, do you take Sister _[last name]_ by the right hand and receive her unto yourself to be your lawfully wedded wife (give yourself to him to be his lawfully wedded wife, and receive him to be your lawfully wedded husband), for time and all eternity, with a covenant and promise that you will observe and keep all the laws, rites, and ordinances pertaining to this holy order of matrimony in the new and everlasting covenant; and this you do in the presence of God, angels, and these witnesses of your own free will and choice?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealing_(Mormonism)

Each plural wife will live matrimonially (and all that means) with the same husband. So if there are houses in the eternities, the wives will all live in the same house with their shared husband. If there is sexual intercourse in the eternities, then the wives will all be expected to have sex with their shared husband. Church members about to make an eternal commitment deserve to be given a full disclosure of what that commitment entails. Now why couldn't Mr Oaks just give the author of the letter, and the Conference attendees, a straight answer?

[_Physics Guy]

So let me see if I have this straight. The next world will be different and wonderful in ways we cannot imagine because God will somehow miraculously transcend the bodily limitations of Earth. And yet in order to gain entry to the preferred afterlife kingdom it will be important to know some special kinds of handshake and to pronounce some special words because God won't be doing any transcending about those things.

Am I misinformed or misinterpreting? Or is it really as dumb as it sounds to me? I appreciate that am I lacking the background explanation that Mormons get about why their various physical tokens learned in the temple are important for the afterlife. So maybe there's a standard Mormon interpretation that makes more sense than I'm seeing. To me it just seems that Mormon doctrine is sometimes very literalistic and materialist, and other times (like Oaks in this case) much more mystical. And it seems inconsistent.

[_Fence Sitter]

Am I misinformed or misinterpreting? Or is it really that dumb?

The entire plan of salvation, or as I like to call it P.O.S. is just a poorly thought out catch phrase intended to keep the faithful inline. When leadership resorts to "trust in God" as a response they are openly admitting they have no clue either how it is going to work and what they are really saying is: "trust our interpretation of what God will do."

A short while back I witnessed first hand one of the huge problems with this vaunted P.O.S. when I attended the funeral of my best friend's mother, a woman who was widowed in her early 40's when my best friend's father died of cancer. His mom had gone on to marry a widower with 10 children, most of them quite young. She spent the next 40+ years as his wife and raised his children. Her second husband delivered the eulogy at her funeral in which he mentioned his beloved wife of 40 years and the only mother most of his children had ever known, was now back with her eternal husband, forever. So I guess families are forever unless your adopted mom or second wife has already been sealed to another man.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense too.

Mormons sacrifice so much to this god of eternal families. I can only imagine what good they could do in this world if their focus was on actual living people and families instead of wasting billions on dead people for a scheme they don't even understand.

[_huckelberry]

So let me see if I have this straight. The next world will be different and wonderful in ways we cannot imagine because God will somehow miraculously transcend the bodily limitations of Earth. And yet in order to gain entry to the preferred afterlife kingdom it will be important to know some special kinds of handshake and to pronounce some special words because God won't be doing any transcending about those things.

Am I misinformed or misinterpreting? Or is it really as dumb as it sounds to me? I appreciate that am I lacking the background explanation that Mormons get about why their various physical tokens learned in the temple are important for the afterlife. So maybe there's a standard Mormon interpretation that makes more sense than I'm seeing. To me it just seems that Mormon doctrine is sometimes very literalistic and materialist, and other times (like Oaks in this case) much more mystical. And it seems inconsistent.

Physics Guy, I think the performance is understood to be the outward shell of an inner covenant which is to lead to a life long commitment to devotion and living.

At least that is what I gather from listening.

[_Themis]

Am I misinformed or misinterpreting? Or is it really as dumb as it sounds to me?

No it's that dumb. The church recently now lets women and children be witnesses at baptisms. A witness's job is to make sure the person being baptized has their body fully immersed. If they see even a toe stick out, they have to do the baptism again. It has to be done right to accepted by God, and it has to be done on earth. If someone is not baptized on earth, someone has to be baptized in their name so they can get to the celestial kingdom. Same with temple marriage. You don't get a temple marriage you will remain single for the eternities. It's about as literal as you can get.

[_Themis]

Physics Guy, I think the performance is understood to be the outward shell of an inner covenant which is to lead to a life long commitment to devotion and living.

At least that is what I gather from listening.

Think of it as requiring both. Kinda like the spirit and body. Both are required to get in.

[_Meadowchik]

This motivates the question, why the cosmic need for polygamy? If God can "resolve" issues like homosexuality by making them go away, why isn't the need for polygamy lifted?

[_huckelberry]

what is interesting about Mr Oaks reply to the first letter he mentions, is that he knows exactly the situation in the eternities for someone sealed to more than one wife. After all, it applies to him directly. Here is the sealing prayer, which explains the conditions that each plural wife and her polygamous husband will be expected to live within...

Brother _[last name]_, do you take Sister _[last name]_ by the right hand and receive her unto yourself to be your lawfully wedded wife (give yourself to him to be his lawfully wedded wife, and receive him to be your lawfully wedded husband), for time and all eternity, with a covenant and promise that you will observe and keep all the laws, rites, and ordinances pertaining to this holy order of matrimony in the new and everlasting covenant; and this you do in the presence of God, angels, and these witnesses of your own free will and choice?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealing_(Mormonism)

Each plural wife will live matrimonially (and all that means) with the same husband. So if there are houses in the eternities, the wives will all live in the same house with their shared husband. Oaks just give the author of the letter, and the Conference attendees, a straight answer?

I have a question, At least to my mind you are reading into that official prayer more than I can see. Houses? Living in one house has not been the only arrangement for Utah polygamy to my knowledge. I believe multiple houses was a more common arrangement.

Even if one believes Mormon pictures of heaven are real one would have to realize that what is known about how heaven works is very small compared to how heaven actually would work.

[_Finn the human]

So let me see if I have this straight. The next world will be different and wonderful in ways we cannot imagine because God will somehow miraculously transcend the bodily limitations of Earth. And yet in order to gain entry to the preferred afterlife kingdom it will be important to know some special kinds of handshake and to pronounce some special words because God won't be doing any transcending about those things.

Am I misinformed or misinterpreting? Or is it really as dumb as it sounds to me? I appreciate that am I lacking the background explanation that Mormons get about why their various physical tokens learned in the temple are important for the afterlife. So maybe there's a standard Mormon interpretation that makes more sense than I'm seeing. To me it just seems that Mormon doctrine is sometimes very literalistic and materialist, and other times (like Oaks in this case) much more mystical. And it seems inconsistent.

A long time ago in a village possible near to you (if you live in America), a Nephite prophet etched this beautiful passage into plates of gold: "by small and simple things (handshakes and cool passwords) are great things come to pass (exaltation)." Alma 37:6. The verse then continues, "and small means in may instances doth confound the wise." Undoubtedly, apologists and members alike have taken great comfort in this passage.

[_Mormonicious]

Oh yeah!, bring on the Bitches. Them commodities are good for something at last.

STUPID damned Mormons

All Hail Google GOD and her son eBay and the holy toaster youtube.