Reconnecting after 30 years

[_Icarus]

I came across an old mission video of mine and remembered this family in our ward Huntington Beach which had five daughters. They threw me a huge birthday party before I left for Spain (I was a Visa waiter). So out of curiosity I began looking for the family on Facebook and came across the father, added him as a friend, and then gradually everyone else added me as well. The father I learned is not expected to live much longer which is sad, and all the kids are married with tons of kids and appear to be happy which put a smile on my face.

But on the first day of reconnecting to one of the daughters, I got a little depressed to learn that she was pushing COVID conspiracy theories on her wall, and then eventually responded to a post on my wall with a long diatribe that you would have thought Sean Hannity had written. I expressed to her that I was sad to see she was into conspiracy theories, we had a brief exchange that was for the most part amicable, and then that was it. I decided to no longer follow her on social media so I wouldn't be tempted to respond to some of the crazy stuff she's posts from the Blaze. She is a huge Glenn Beck fan.

Anywho, this was a couple weeks ago and I hadn't heard anything back, until she sent me this PM just an hour ago. I then realized it would be better for me to not even respond with much other than a smiley emoji. I've been so disconnected from Mormonism (she doesn't know that) for so long now that all this secret combination garbage and fulfilled prophesy nonsense brings back bad memories and I just don't want to even approach it.

Hey there Kevin! Thanks again for friending me on Facebook. I have always wondered what happed to you and where you ended up. I was genuinely excited to see your friend request. I have fond memories of the time you spent with my family. After our last interaction on Facebook regarding political stuff, I felt sad and didn’t like the confrontational verbiage that was being relayed back and forth. That kind of interaction is never one that changes the others mind and is really quite useless. I wanted to respond then but needed time to not feel so bothered by it all. Your last remark about me being a right wing, conservative conspiracy theorist was a little harsh considering you don’t really know me and haven’t seen me in years. The tone in which you said it was clearly not meant as a compliment. It really feels like all my friends that share your views resort to name calling and snarky comments with those that don’t share your views. No room for tolerance or understanding and accepting others views and feelings. Then today, this was sent to me from a dear friend. So profound! As I listened, I thought of you. Not as a cry of repentance for you, but rather an enlightening moment for me. I don’t know where you stand with your testimony of the Book of Mormon as I don’t know you very well, but I do know that at one point you had a testimony and shared it with our family. While listening to this clip, it occurred to me that some people call them conspiracy theories but I would call some of these “theories” the actions of secret combinations. The very things that are happening in our world today have been foretold for centuries. Nothing new, nothing out of left field, merely in plain sight for us as members who read, study and ponder the scriptures. We were also foretold of the many that would leave the church in droves. That many would be deceived and harden their hearts, therefore unable to see what is right in front of their eyes. Some call me a right wing Fox news conspiracy theorist. But as I said before I don’t watch Fox News. I don’t really watch any news. I have course seen the headlines that come up on my phone and have read some things that were sent to me by others. Ultimately I’m using the knowledge from what the Scriptures and the prophets have taught me. I’m going by the feelings of the Spirit and cannot be swayed. If you don’t share my view on this, that’s ok. I’m not here to preach to you or to try and change your views but merely share with you where I’m coming from. I hope you can respect that. Please know that I truly respect you and want to remember you with the same fondness as I have for years. Your friend,

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Hrm... how would I respond to that...

Well. You did the right thing by sending an emoji. People generally love them. I think. I mean, it’s better than saying, “Bless your heart.” It’s tricky because you got into it with her. Bantering on MDB is one thing, but Facebook is another because, well, it just is.

I have a neighbor that I call Crazy Dave. Try to picture a guy (this isn’t exactly Crazy Dave, but I’m trying to give you an idea what he’s like) who lives in a trailer, drives a truck with a full-sized Confederate flag, did a stint in the Army, is married to a lady four times his size, has on old dog, porn is his favorite past time and he’s not afraid to let you know it, walks around the city in the wee hours, vibes on flat earth/lizard people forums, thinks the government hands out too much welfare even though he and his lady are on social security for self-induced conditions, and is the street’s nosy gadfly.

Crazy Dave used to cross the street at least once a week to chat me up about everything that passed through his brain. I don’t know why. But he did. He did that with most people I think. I used to listen to his thoughts about everything from the Clintons killing people to chemtrails to the Bilderbergers. You name it, and if it’s bananas, he had an opinion on it.

Then one day he jumped into the flat earth thing, and I don’t know why, but I couldn’t abide it. So I challenged him on it. We went back and forth for an hour or so, and I was unfortunately still convinced the earth was a globe, the fool that I am. He walked across the street never to return. That was it.

Until I found out from some new neighbors that Crazy Dave was talking mad crap about me, and that if they don’t watch their backs I’ll call the cops on them if their weeds aren’t plucked and if their music is too loud. I was genuinely saddened to hear Crazy Dave turn the knife. Alas, my new neighbors are fine with me, and I have yet to call the cops when I hear their Norteño music at 9 o’clock in the evening. Such is life.

The lesson I took from Crazy Dave? When listening to friends and family luxuriate in crazy conspiracy theories or awful political stratagem, it’s best to save the arguments for MDB.

- Doc

[_Lemmie]

Ultimately I’m using the knowledge from what the Scriptures and the prophets have taught me. I’m going by the feelings of the Spirit and cannot be swayed.

Wow.

[_Temp. Admin.]

Dr. Shades here. This is more evidence in favor of what I implied earlier:

One can express opinions on Facebook, or one can have friends on Facebook. Pick one.

[_Lemmie]

Dr. Shades here. This is more evidence in favor of what I implied earlier:

One can express opinions on Facebook, or one can have friends on Facebook. Pick one.

I totally agree.

[_Icarus]

Well, I decided to respond anyway....

I think it is in my blood to jump in and correct misinformation as I come across it, and while doing so on social media a lot gets lost in the fold so it probably comes across as more confrontational than intended. It isn't intended as personal, and no I don't do this for the benefit of the person I'm arguing with so much as onlookers. I'm sorry if I offended you, I didn't mean "conspiracy theorist" as a slur or anything like that. I have friends who never came across a conspiracy they didn't embrace. Some people just go for that kind of thing, whereas I've become more evidence based in my philosophy on life, religion and politics. You'll probably be sad to know I'm no longer in the Church. My wife is but we've been married nearly 20 years and it hasn't caused any major issues. Probably because she's not really LDS in any sense other than social. I spent about 15 years as an apologist for the Church when in my own research, learned that Joseph Smith couldn't translate ancient documents which was in my view, empirically demonstrated by the Book of Abraham being translated from funerary papyri. I spent a good decade debating that issue with myself as well as other BYU professors such as John Gee, Brian Hauglid and Daniel Peterson. At the end of the day it cost me my testimony, but I don't regret my Mormon experience. I try to look on it fondly and I have no desire or intention to do or say anything to dissuade current members from keeping their faith. Some people I couldn't imagine any other way if they weren't LDS. Having said all that, it put a smile on my face to flip through your Dad's profile and to see photos of you and your sisters. Fond memories indeed. Everyone appears to be doing very well in life, and that makes me happy.

She replied back quickly:

Yes that does make me sad. For the very reason I said earlier. “Theories of man mingled with scripture”. I have lost several friends and family to the church due to the theological abyss. It is heartbreaking for those who do have testimonies to watch those we love take that first step off the path that we know is a righteous path to explore the world from a philosophical approach. The answers will never be there because we believe in faith. My testimony is simple. Definitely room for improvement but it’s just not in me to deny the spiritual revelations I’ve had. But I respect you non the less.

[_Gunnar]

Then one day he jumped into the flat earth thing, and I don’t know why, but I couldn’t abide it. So I challenged him on it. We went back and forth for an hour or so, and I was unfortunately still convinced the earth was a globe, the fool that I am. He walked across the street never to return. That was it

- Doc

I have long thought and often said that those who support people like Trump and conspiracy theories of various types and deny scientific realities like human caused global warming are on approximately on the same intellectual and cognitive plane as flat earthers. I'm not at all surprised that your friend described above turned out to be flat earther. I would not be terribly surprised to find that Trump, himself, is inclined towards believing that. He would certainly not disdain the support of flat earthers, and I doubt he would try to discourage their belief in it. In fact, I would be surprised if flat earthers did not comprise a significant portion of his hard core base. Some of the stupid things I have heard Trump supporters say are every bit as stupid as the flat earth hypothesis, if not more so.

[_Temp. Admin.]

Gunnar:

Maybe you're the wrong person to ask, since it isn't your point of view, but how do flat earth theorists respond when asked why it's a different time of day or night for that other person when speaking on the phone with someone on a continent other than South America?

[_Some Schmo]

Your last remark about me being a right wing, conservative conspiracy theorist was a little harsh considering you don’t really know me and haven’t seen me in years. The tone in which you said it was clearly not meant as a compliment. It really feels like all my friends that share your views resort to name calling and snarky comments with those that don’t share your views. No room for tolerance or understanding and accepting others views and feelings.

The main problem with this sentiment is that these type of people tend to confuse opinions with facts. Your "point of view" is invalid if all you're seeing is a mirage, and that's worth pointed out. I really don't care if people are offended by the truth, and neither does the truth.

What she said here is essentially, I want to be able to believe all the nonsense in the world without people pointing it out. If they do, I'll willfully misinterpret it to mean they are intolerant.

So yeah, you can believe what you want, and we get to tell you what we think of it. You're f-ucking insane.

[_Some Schmo]

The lesson I took from Crazy Dave? When listening to friends and family luxuriate in crazy conspiracy theories or awful political stratagem, it’s best to save the arguments for MormonDiscussions.com.

Hmph. I got the opposite lesson. He left you alone after your argument, didn't he?

Sounds like a win to me.