BYU being sued for "online" curriculum not being what was paid for

[_I have a question]

A Brigham Young University student sued the private school Wednesday, claiming he didn’t get what he paid for when the campus was closed and classes were moved online because of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Chase Hiatt, an undergraduate during the winter and spring 2020 semesters and who enrolled for classes this fall, claims in the federal lawsuit that the online learning options offered at BYU are “subpar” compared to the educational experience provided before classes were suspended in March.

While Hiatt is currently the only plaintiff in the case, his attorney, Michael Watton, is looking to make it a class-action suit.

“In short, plaintiffs and the members of the class have paid for tuition for a first-rate education and an on-campus, in-person educational experience, with all the appurtenant benefits offered by a first-rate university, and were provided a materially deficient and insufficient alternative, which alternative constitutes a breach of the contracts entered into by plaintiffs and the class with the university,” according to the lawsuit filed in U.S. District Court in Salt Lake City.

BYU priced the tuition and mandatory fees based on the in-person educational services, opportunities and experiences it was providing on campus, according to the suit. Claims in the lawsuit include breach of contract and unjust enrichment.

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/8/5/2 ... ne-classes

“Defendant’s practice of failing to provide reimbursements for tuition and mandatory fees despite the diminished value of the education and other experiences that it provided, and the reduced benefits associated with the fees, as alleged herein, violates generally accepted principles of business conduct,” according to the lawsuit.

[_Kishkumen]

What a prick. Here we are in the midst of a global pandemic. Professors are scrambling to finish out the semester to the best of their ability, and this asshole brings a lawsuit over it. Screw that guy. Just screw him.

I mean, think of it. Here this guy gets a good deal on a solid education that many other young people would love to have the privilege of getting but can't. And this guy is suing in circumstances that are the very definition of "an act of God." It is situations like these that actually manage to make the LDS Church look sympathetic.

[_Meadowchik]

It's not just against BYU. There are cases elsewhere and more will likely pop up. Maybe he is just being spiteful, but it's also possible that he feels like he'll need to retake the courses and he will need fees for that.

[_moksha]

Even if what he said was true, about the on-line classes being subpar, is it right to sue the Lord's University? It is hard for BYU to fulfill its mission of being a proving ground for Mormon courtships when students are taking courses from home.

[_Temp. Admin.]

Fortunately, the LDS church has $100,000,000,000 in the bank, so it can just settle out of court without skipping a beat.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Hrm. There seems to be a recurring theme with some students and their tuition:

https://www.courant.com/coronavirus/hc- ... story.html

"A Yale University student from Ohio has sued the Ivy League school in federal court seeking a refund of tuition from when the university went from in-person learning to online this past spring.

Jonathan Michel claims the online experience was inferior and that Yale breached its contract with him and other students and unjustly enriched itself when it did not refund tuition. His lawyers are seeking class action status so that they can represent other students."

I don't know what to think of this since I'm not in their shoes, nor that of a school's administration. It seems cheap to do this, though. It seems like privilege taken to the extreme, but again I just don't know enough about campus life to understand the value of the brick and mortar experience versus the online education someone receives.

I can say this in m limited experience - my online courses were much more engaging and thorough than the in-person classes. I had to do a lot more reading, writing, and interacting with fellow students online than in person. It was almost as if the school was overcompensating for the stigma of online learning, much to our advantage, To be honest.

- Doc

[_Shulem]

Fortunately, the LDS church has $100,000,000,000 in the bank, so it can just settle out of court without skipping a beat.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has over $100.000.000.00 in the bank.

U stand corrected.

[_Kishkumen]

It's not just against BYU. There are cases elsewhere and more will likely pop up. Maybe he is just being spiteful, but it's also possible that he feels like he'll need to retake the courses and he will need fees for that.

And if you have an elite private university with a huge endowment that primarily serves the wealthy and is charging $30K+ a year in tuition alone, then, OK, I suppose it is about that. BYU is not that school, even if the Church funding it is super-wealthy.

Unless I am reading this incorrectly, he signed up for the term after the pandemic had started, and he has signed up for Fall too. In other words, he could have opted out of what he perceived to be substandard class experiences, but he decided to keep on. I have very little sympathy for him.

[_Kishkumen]

Hrm. There seems to be a recurring theme with some students and their tuition:

https://www.courant.com/coronavirus/hc- ... story.html

"A Yale University student from Ohio has sued the Ivy League school in federal court seeking a refund of tuition from when the university went from in-person learning to online this past spring.

Jonathan Michel claims the online experience was inferior and that Yale breached its contract with him and other students and unjustly enriched itself when it did not refund tuition. His lawyers are seeking class action status so that they can represent other students."

I don't know what to think of this since I'm not in their shoes, nor that of a school's administration. It seems cheap to do this, though. It seems like privilege taken to the extreme, but again I just don't know enough about campus life to understand the value of the brick and mortar experience versus the online education someone receives.

I can say this in m limited experience - my online courses were much more engaging and thorough than the in-person classes. I had to do a lot more reading, writing, and interacting with fellow students online than in person. It was almost as if the school was overcompensating for the stigma of online learning, much to our advantage, To be honest.

I think everyone will should consider Spring term a wash. The universities were unable to predict it, thanks to the fecklessness and incompetence of our national leaders, and so we entered Spring term without any clue how bad this would get. When it did get bad, we did our level best to finish our courses in a conscientious manner. This is the kind of circumstance that it is impossible to react ideally to. I have a hard time faulting the universities, the professors, or the students for what they were able to do in the Spring. We all did what we could do, and I did a fair amount of commiserating and hand holding myself. My students were also very understanding. That said, I went out of my way to make the end of the course as worthwhile as the beginning.

So, I have a very difficult time with those who use those highly unique circumstances as grounds for a lawsuit. We will all look back on that time and forgive each other for not being everything we had expected before going into those months. We did what we could do in the situation.

Now, where my sympathy starts to run really dry is in the next step. If I am a student, and I hated online work, then I should probably not sign up for summer courses during a pandemic. As Fall approaches, and I know there is a better than even chance that I will be online again, I don't sign up for it if I don't like that mode of education. On the university end, I do not present the online as the same as in-person. Unless the university knows it can keep people safe, do not open the campus in the Fall term for normal in-person instruction.

In the public universities of red states, we have been pushed to open. We are part of the state apparatus, and the state can force us to open, whether we like it or not. My spouse will be teaching in-person, in a classroom, in mere days. I am freaking the “F” out. We both are. She will bring what she has been exposed to in the university home to her family thanks to Republican state leaders. I took a leave of absence without pay for the year because my union contract allows me to do that (thank God for that, and no thanks to the anti-labor Republican Party that has fought labor tooth and nail). I had already been planning to be away to focus on writing a complete draft of my book, but now I am glad not to have to go to campus for any reason.

In the midst of the current chaos, when there are so many deadly serious things to worry about, the idea that some BYU student is suing BYU over a less than optimal educational experience in a global pandemic makes me want to shove my middle finger in his eye. Doubtless I would not, even if I were given the opportunity, because God knows where that little jerk has been and what he has been up to.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Kish,

I'm really sorry you and your spouse are being put in literal mortal danger due to politics. I wish your administration would grow a spine and stick up for its faculty and facilitate the safer method of distance learning until we get through this thing.

- Doc