When there aren’t cameras around

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Res Ipsa
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When there aren’t cameras around

Post by Res Ipsa »

In articles discussing the abuses perpetrated by ICE and CBP, I’ve seen several folks ask: “If they’re this bad when being recorded, what are they doing when there are no cameras?”

About what you’d expect.

The ACLU investigated conditions at Fort Bliss, one of the new pop up concentration camps for detainees. They sent a letter to ICE back in December. https://www.aclu.org/documents/ice-letter-re-fort-bliss The headliner:
Officers at Ft. Bliss beat “Samuel,” a detained teenager, so severely that he sustained injuries across his body, lost consciousness, and had to be taken to a hospital in an ambulance.

Officers piled on to him, body slammed him, and began to beat him after he switched off an overhead light in a housing unit. The officers positioned their bodies to block the view of the security camera in the unit. Samuel’s right front tooth broke from the force of being slammed to the ground, and as Samuel attests, one officer “grabbed my testicles and firmly crushed them,” while another “forced his fingers deep into my ears.” Samuel also recalls that officers “pulled my fingers back very painfully, almost to the point that it felt like my fingers might break,” after cuffing him, and punched the area around his mouth. Even then, with Samuel already cuffed, officers continued punching Samuel around his mouth. When the beating finally stopped, an officer held Samuel against the wall. While Samuel was feeling “dizzy” and was “fighting to remain conscious,” an officer laughed at Samuel for having a chipped tooth after being slammed to the ground and told Samuel he was “like a little girl.”21 Samuel’s injuries were so severe that he lost consciousness in the medical tent. When he regained consciousness, he was in an ambulance on the way to the hospital. A month and half after the beating, damage to Samuel’s left ear is so severe that he now has trouble hearing, and he continue to feel pain in his testicles.
22 Although all medical care in detention must be provided at no cost to detainees, NDS 2025 § 4.3(II)(A)(2), Samuel received a medical bill charging him for his emergency visit to the hospital on the night that officers beat him.23
21 Exhibit E, Declaration of “Samuel,” ¶¶ 13-16, Nov. 2025; Exhibit Q, Suppl. Declaration of “Samuel,” ¶ 6, Dec. 2025.
22 Id. ¶¶ 13-16.
23 Exhibit Q, Suppl. Declaration of “Samuel,” ¶ 7, Dec. 2025.
6 The practice of crushing detainees’ testicles during use of force incidents at Ft. Bliss is not isolated. “Isaac,” like Samuel, also reports that officers grabbed and crushed his testicles between their fingers as they beat him while attempting to force him into Mexico.24
Your tax dollars at work.

How about this:
As multiple detainees have reported, including in the sworn affidavits provided here, ICE officers have routinely approached non-Mexican individuals held at Ft. Bliss, and, in most cases, informed them orally that they will be deported to Mexico. When detainees state that they fear being removed to Mexico and decline third country deportation, officers have subjected them to physical abuse, and threats of criminal prosecution and lengthy imprisonment.
Illegal and unconstitutional.

Well, how’s the food:
Detainees at Ft. Bliss almost uniformly describe deprivation of sufficient food. Detainees describe meager portion sizes of meals that are “the size of [a] fist,” and report that people have gone hungry, because officers do not provide sufficient food for distribution on housing units. In some cases, detainees have eaten only two meals due to insufficient food.30 Detainees report significant weight loss at Ft. Bliss because of insufficient food. “Jaime” reports that he lost almost ten pounds in less than two months.31 “Hernan” and “Nelson,” also report that they have lost weight because of insufficient food.32 When food is provided, it is often frozen food that is
29 See Exhibit A, Declaration of “Isaac,” ¶ 13, Nov. 2025.
30 Exhibit I, Declaration of “Gershon,” ¶¶ 14-15, Nov. 2025; Exhibit P, Declaration of “Hernan,” ¶ 13, Dec. 2025.
31 Interview with “Jaime,” Nov. 2025.
32 Exhibit P, Declaration of “Hernan,” ¶ 14-15, Dec. 2025; Interview with “Nelson,” Oct. 2025.
8 supposed to be defrosted, but is spoiled and inedible.33 As a result, detainees become ill from the food. Almost every detainee we talked to described widespread diarrhea and vomiting due to the food.34
Maybe the weight loss is from exercise?
Detainees at Ft. Bliss uniformly report that they are denied access to recreation and are held in squalid, cramped tents for up to weeks at a time. Not a single interviewee reported receiving daily recreation as required by the ICE National Detention Standards, and most reported going weeks or even months without seeing the sky. Although Ft. Bliss has an outdoor recreation area, it is not used consistently or according to ICE and facility policy. Several detained people noted that the facility has a posted schedule requiring nearly daily access to outdoor recreation but reported
that this policy was not followed.

77 One detained person reported never receiving any outdoor recreation since arriving at Ft. Bliss. She had not seen the sun in over three months, and she was given access to indoor recreation only once. It took place in a room called “a library” that held no books.78
Well, I’ll bet the accommodations are nice…
Detained people at Ft. Bliss are held in tent units with bunk beds for 72 people positioned closely together and a bathroom area with toilets and showers, shared by everyone in the unit.56 Detainees note that the toilets are particularly unsanitary, with urine and fecal matter lining the
bowls and the surrounding walls.57 The area stinks of urine and feces.58 In some units, individuals are given only one roll of toilet paper per day for all 72 people.59 Often, across housing units, the excrement blackens the water from the bathroom area, which pools with the water that collects
from the shower area, and floods into the area where meals are served each day. Detainees across six different housing units uniformly described water contaminated with sewage flooding the housing unit, including areas where detainees must eat.60 “David” reported that “the shower drains do not work and constantly cause flooding” with water that is “filled with urine and fecal matter.” Detained people have made officers aware of this issue, but officers have not addressed it. While there is a barrier between the bathroom and dining area, it does not successfully block the water from spilling beyond the bathroom into the meals area. 61 The flooring under the shower is made from non-waterproof wooden pallets that emit an “awful smell.”62 Despite these filthy conditions, and even in the absence of cleaning staff, officers still fail to provide detained people with cleaning products. Detained people must often resort to wiping up the puddles of dirty water with their clothes, such as their underwear and socks, because they are not provided with towels or any other supplies to mop up the dirty water. 63 The fact that they are not provided any sort of cleaning solutions to clean the leakage of contaminated water into their dormitory increases the risk of disease outbreaks. Furthermore, the haphazard and ongoing construction of the detention center has caused sanitation issues. The vents “spit out dust,” which can be seen spilling onto the ground.64
These people are not the worst of the worst. They are detained in prisons and similarly secure facilities. These are your ordinary folks who came to escape persecution or seek a better life.

Done in your name with your tax dollars.
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Re: When there aren’t cameras around

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Res Ipsa wrote:
Thu Jan 29, 2026 2:57 am
Done in your name with your tax dollars.
In your estimation, what would happen if the nationwide protests happening right now were to become a nationwide protest of American citizens who refuse to pay their federal taxes this year?

As did Thoreau who refused to pay his Poll Tax as a protest for six years?

How does it become a man to behave toward this American government to-day? I answer, that he cannot without disgrace be associated with it. I cannot for an instant recognize that political organization as my government which is the slave’s government also. (Civil Disobedience, 360)
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Re: When there aren’t cameras around

Post by Res Ipsa »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Thu Jan 29, 2026 8:39 am
Res Ipsa wrote:
Thu Jan 29, 2026 2:57 am
Done in your name with your tax dollars.
In your estimation, what would happen if the nationwide protests happening right now were to become a nationwide protest of American citizens who refuse to pay their federal taxes this year?

As did Thoreau who refused to pay his Poll Tax as a protest for six years?

How does it become a man to behave toward this American government to-day? I answer, that he cannot without disgrace be associated with it. I cannot for an instant recognize that political organization as my government which is the slave’s government also. (Civil Disobedience, 360)
A tax protest is logistically difficult because most people have their taxes withheld from paychecks. I suppose folks could reduce their holdings to the minimum and then not pay next April, but that’s a long ways off. It would need to be coordinated and publicized as a mass action. And, like any other act of civil disobedience, people would have to be willing to accept the consequences.
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Re: When there aren’t cameras around

Post by Gunnar »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Thu Jan 29, 2026 2:57 am
In articles discussing the abuses perpetrated by ICE and CBP, I’ve seen several folks ask: “If they’re this bad when being recorded, what are they doing when there are no cameras?”

About what you’d expect.

The ACLU investigated conditions at Fort Bliss, one of the new pop up concentration camps for detainees. They sent a letter to ICE back in December. https://www.aclu.org/documents/ice-letter-re-fort-bliss The headliner:
Officers at Ft. Bliss beat “Samuel,” a detained teenager, so severely that he sustained injuries across his body, lost consciousness, and had to be taken to a hospital in an ambulance.

Officers piled on to him, body slammed him, and began to beat him after he switched off an overhead light in a housing unit. The officers positioned their bodies to block the view of the security camera in the unit. Samuel’s right front tooth broke from the force of being slammed to the ground, and as Samuel attests, one officer “grabbed my testicles and firmly crushed them,” while another “forced his fingers deep into my ears.” Samuel also recalls that officers “pulled my fingers back very painfully, almost to the point that it felt like my fingers might break,” after cuffing him, and punched the area around his mouth. Even then, with Samuel already cuffed, officers continued punching Samuel around his mouth. When the beating finally stopped, an officer held Samuel against the wall. While Samuel was feeling “dizzy” and was “fighting to remain conscious,” an officer laughed at Samuel for having a chipped tooth after being slammed to the ground and told Samuel he was “like a little girl.”21 Samuel’s injuries were so severe that he lost consciousness in the medical tent. When he regained consciousness, he was in an ambulance on the way to the hospital. A month and half after the beating, damage to Samuel’s left ear is so severe that he now has trouble hearing, and he continue to feel pain in his testicles.
22 Although all medical care in detention must be provided at no cost to detainees, NDS 2025 § 4.3(II)(A)(2), Samuel received a medical bill charging him for his emergency visit to the hospital on the night that officers beat him.23
21 Exhibit E, Declaration of “Samuel,” ¶¶ 13-16, Nov. 2025; Exhibit Q, Suppl. Declaration of “Samuel,” ¶ 6, Dec. 2025.
22 Id. ¶¶ 13-16.
23 Exhibit Q, Suppl. Declaration of “Samuel,” ¶ 7, Dec. 2025.
6 The practice of crushing detainees’ testicles during use of force incidents at Ft. Bliss is not isolated. “Isaac,” like Samuel, also reports that officers grabbed and crushed his testicles between their fingers as they beat him while attempting to force him into Mexico.24
Your tax dollars at work.

How about this:
As multiple detainees have reported, including in the sworn affidavits provided here, ICE officers have routinely approached non-Mexican individuals held at Ft. Bliss, and, in most cases, informed them orally that they will be deported to Mexico. When detainees state that they fear being removed to Mexico and decline third country deportation, officers have subjected them to physical abuse, and threats of criminal prosecution and lengthy imprisonment.
Illegal and unconstitutional.

Well, how’s the food:
Detainees at Ft. Bliss almost uniformly describe deprivation of sufficient food. Detainees describe meager portion sizes of meals that are “the size of [a] fist,” and report that people have gone hungry, because officers do not provide sufficient food for distribution on housing units. In some cases, detainees have eaten only two meals due to insufficient food.30 Detainees report significant weight loss at Ft. Bliss because of insufficient food. “Jaime” reports that he lost almost ten pounds in less than two months.31 “Hernan” and “Nelson,” also report that they have lost weight because of insufficient food.32 When food is provided, it is often frozen food that is
29 See Exhibit A, Declaration of “Isaac,” ¶ 13, Nov. 2025.
30 Exhibit I, Declaration of “Gershon,” ¶¶ 14-15, Nov. 2025; Exhibit P, Declaration of “Hernan,” ¶ 13, Dec. 2025.
31 Interview with “Jaime,” Nov. 2025.
32 Exhibit P, Declaration of “Hernan,” ¶ 14-15, Dec. 2025; Interview with “Nelson,” Oct. 2025.
8 supposed to be defrosted, but is spoiled and inedible.33 As a result, detainees become ill from the food. Almost every detainee we talked to described widespread diarrhea and vomiting due to the food.34
Maybe the weight loss is from exercise?
Detainees at Ft. Bliss uniformly report that they are denied access to recreation and are held in squalid, cramped tents for up to weeks at a time. Not a single interviewee reported receiving daily recreation as required by the ICE National Detention Standards, and most reported going weeks or even months without seeing the sky. Although Ft. Bliss has an outdoor recreation area, it is not used consistently or according to ICE and facility policy. Several detained people noted that the facility has a posted schedule requiring nearly daily access to outdoor recreation but reported
that this policy was not followed.

77 One detained person reported never receiving any outdoor recreation since arriving at Ft. Bliss. She had not seen the sun in over three months, and she was given access to indoor recreation only once. It took place in a room called “a library” that held no books.78
Well, I’ll bet the accommodations are nice…
Detained people at Ft. Bliss are held in tent units with bunk beds for 72 people positioned closely together and a bathroom area with toilets and showers, shared by everyone in the unit.56 Detainees note that the toilets are particularly unsanitary, with urine and fecal matter lining the
bowls and the surrounding walls.57 The area stinks of urine and feces.58 In some units, individuals are given only one roll of toilet paper per day for all 72 people.59 Often, across housing units, the excrement blackens the water from the bathroom area, which pools with the water that collects
from the shower area, and floods into the area where meals are served each day. Detainees across six different housing units uniformly described water contaminated with sewage flooding the housing unit, including areas where detainees must eat.60 “David” reported that “the shower drains do not work and constantly cause flooding” with water that is “filled with urine and fecal matter.” Detained people have made officers aware of this issue, but officers have not addressed it. While there is a barrier between the bathroom and dining area, it does not successfully block the water from spilling beyond the bathroom into the meals area. 61 The flooring under the shower is made from non-waterproof wooden pallets that emit an “awful smell.”62 Despite these filthy conditions, and even in the absence of cleaning staff, officers still fail to provide detained people with cleaning products. Detained people must often resort to wiping up the puddles of dirty water with their clothes, such as their underwear and socks, because they are not provided with towels or any other supplies to mop up the dirty water. 63 The fact that they are not provided any sort of cleaning solutions to clean the leakage of contaminated water into their dormitory increases the risk of disease outbreaks. Furthermore, the haphazard and ongoing construction of the detention center has caused sanitation issues. The vents “spit out dust,” which can be seen spilling onto the ground.64
These people are not the worst of the worst. They are detained in prisons and similarly secure facilities. These are your ordinary folks who came to escape persecution or seek a better life.

Done in your name with your tax dollars.
This is absolutely appalling! Isn't all this a blatant violation of the constitutional prohibition of cruel and unusual punishment? Such treatment of suspects and prisoners, no matter how reprehensible and guilty they are, is supposed to be prohibited by the Constitution, International law and the Geneva Convention, isn't it? Law enforcement personnel who are guilty of such abuse deserve to be indicted, prosecuted and sent to prison, just as surely as anyone else guilty of such cruelty!
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Re: When there aren’t cameras around

Post by Jersey Girl »

Gunnar wrote:
Fri Jan 30, 2026 1:01 am
This is absolutely appalling! Isn't all this a blatant violation of the constitutional prohibition of cruel and unusual punishment? Such treatment of suspects and prisoners, no matter how reprehensible and guilty they are, is supposed to be prohibited by the Constitution, International law and the Geneva Convention, isn't it? Law enforcement personnel who are guilty of such abuse deserve to be indicted, prosecuted and sent to prison, just as surely as anyone else guilty of such cruelty!
Send them to their own gulag. Let them share a cage.
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Re: When there aren’t cameras around

Post by Res Ipsa »

Gunnar wrote:
Fri Jan 30, 2026 1:01 am
This is absolutely appalling! Isn't all this a blatant violation of the constitutional prohibition of cruel and unusual punishment? Such treatment of suspects and prisoners, no matter how reprehensible and guilty they are, is supposed to be prohibited by the Constitution, International law and the Geneva Convention, isn't it? Law enforcement personnel who are guilty of such abuse deserve to be indicted, prosecuted and sent to prison, just as surely as anyone else guilty of such cruelty!
The eighth amendment generally doesn’t apply because immigration detention isn’t punishment. However, the fifth amendment’s does process clause does apply. I’m not familiar with the case law as applied to detention. The letter makes many references to ICE’s detention standards, but they create no enforceable constitutional or legal rights. That seems like a pretty big flaw to me.
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Re: When there aren’t cameras around

Post by Jersey Girl »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Thu Jan 29, 2026 4:35 pm
Jersey Girl wrote:
Thu Jan 29, 2026 8:39 am
In your estimation, what would happen if the nationwide protests happening right now were to become a nationwide protest of American citizens who refuse to pay their federal taxes this year?

As did Thoreau who refused to pay his Poll Tax as a protest for six years?

How does it become a man to behave toward this American government to-day? I answer, that he cannot without disgrace be associated with it. I cannot for an instant recognize that political organization as my government which is the slave’s government also. (Civil Disobedience, 360)
A tax protest is logistically difficult because most people have their taxes withheld from paychecks. I suppose folks could reduce their holdings to the minimum and then not pay next April, but that’s a long ways off. It would need to be coordinated and publicized as a mass action. And, like any other act of civil disobedience, people would have to be willing to accept the consequences.
Thank you for replying. I learn so much from you. For example, this time I discovered that I apparently have no brain. :oops:
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Re: When there aren’t cameras around

Post by Res Ipsa »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Fri Jan 30, 2026 2:25 am
Res Ipsa wrote:
Thu Jan 29, 2026 4:35 pm
A tax protest is logistically difficult because most people have their taxes withheld from paychecks. I suppose folks could reduce their holdings to the minimum and then not pay next April, but that’s a long ways off. It would need to be coordinated and publicized as a mass action. And, like any other act of civil disobedience, people would have to be willing to accept the consequences.
Thank you for replying. I learn so much from you. For example, this time I discovered that I apparently have no brain. :oops:
Naw, it was a good question. Lots of folks are asking if states can withhold tax payments to the federal government. I don’t think that works either because employers pay directly to the federal government.

in my opinion, the biggest hammers the people have are a general strike (not just for a day) and shutting DC down with 2-3 million protesters.
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Re: When there aren’t cameras around

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Given that:

Image

there are 12-17 million people who think the administration isn’t going hard enough, we’re pretty much assured that more atrocities will be committed away from cameras. I can’t event imagine what’s going on in those facilities much less the ones where kids are being held captive.
Last edited by Doctor CamNC4Me on Fri Jan 30, 2026 12:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: When there aren’t cameras around

Post by I Have Questions »

I’d be keen to hear Ceeboo’s opinion on the OP…is Trump making America great again Ceeboo? And if so, how?
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
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