Bible verse by verse

[_subgenius]

I'm perfectly happy to admit I operate under a "predisposition" regarding the existence of a god or gods. In point of fact I operate under two such predispositions:

Predisposition Number One:
I don't know whether or not a god or gods exist. Moreover, assuming a god or gods exist, I don't know why it would necessarily have to be the god of the Old Testament...or the god of the Qur'an, or the god whose existence is posited in the Hubbardian Basics. The reason why I cite these three gods (the Christian god, the Islamic god, and the supreme being posited by Scientology) is because they are mutually conflicting. In other words, if one exists, the others by necessity cannot exist.

Predisposition Number Two:
I will happily change my world view concerning the existence of a god or gods in the event that I come across clear, compelling evidence that is not open to multiple interpretations. It's wrong to assume (as bcspace and others do) that people like me who reject traditional notions of deity are not capable of changing our opinions in the light of clear, compelling evidence to the contrary. Given sufficient evidence, I will eagerly change my views and opinions accordingly. I think it's a lot of fun whenever I learn the world works in strange, new ways. Don't you?

You admit that you do not know "whether a god or gods exist"...yet your disposition is actually one of "i know He/They does not"...yet you cannot provide any evidence for that knowledge.
By pointing out that one God contradicts another god does not negate all of them, it just illuminates the notion that you do not have enough information to either disprove one, both, or all...at which case your disposition to not believe in any is the issue.
Quite simply, since you, here now, claim that you have no evidence to believe either way then what you are believing is simply a position of faith. You currently exercise faith that He/They does not exist.

Bottom line, it is not always the proposition that requires justification...in many instances the burden of proof is upon the opposition...that is to say, it is on you (equally) to prove that God does not exist.....really, it is quite a simple challenge - wouldn't you agree?

You're saying it's up to me to prove that the ancient war god of the tribal Hebrews isn't real???

If you are claiming that He isn't real, then yes.

Then what about the Qur'an? Is it up to me to prove that the god of the Qur'an isn't real, either?

If you are claiming that He isn't real, then yes.

And what about Scientology? Is it also up to me to prove the god of Scientology isn't real?

If you are claiming that it isn't real, then yes.

Am I therefore supposed to assume these three mutually-conflicting gods all simultaneously exist just because I can't prove they're not real?

mutually conflicting does not conclude with all three being non-existent..the contradiction could be a result of 2 being "not real"....or that you do not have enough information to make a reasonable determination....i am swayed towards believing the former...but the latter remains to be seen.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way...

which is your entitled opinion

[_LittleNipper]

Bottom line, it is not always the proposition that requires justification...in many instances the burden of proof is upon the opposition...that is to say, it is on you (equally) to prove that God does not exist.....really, it is quite a simple challenge - wouldn't you agree?

You're saying it's up to me to prove that the ancient war god of the tribal Hebrews isn't real???

If you are claiming that He isn't real, then yes.

Then what about the Qur'an? Is it up to me to prove that the god of the Qur'an isn't real, either?

If you are claiming that He isn't real, then yes.

And what about Scientology? Is it also up to me to prove the god of Scientology isn't real?

If you are claiming that it isn't real, then yes.

Am I therefore supposed to assume these three mutually-conflicting gods all simultaneously exist just because I can't prove they're not real?

mutually conflicting does not conclude with all three being non-existent..the contradiction could be a result of 2 being "not real"....or that you do not have enough information to make a reasonable determination....i am swayed towards believing the former...but the latter remains to be seen.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way...

which is your entitled opinion[/quote]
The ONE GOD of the Old Testament is none other than the I AM of the New Testament comprised of Father, Son and Spirit = ONE GOD. Scientology was founded on a book and it wasn't the Bible. You must be willing to do your own research or you will be a victim of whatever quack/belief/trend/theory comes along --- religious or not. I've presented YOU with some foundation. Now it is up to you to do your homework.

[_LittleNipper]

The ONE GOD of the Old Testament is none other than the I AM of the New Testament comprised of Father, Son and Spirit = ONE GOD. Scientology was founded on a book and it wasn't the Bible. You must be willing to do your own research or you will be a victim of whatever quack/belief/trend/theory comes along --- religious or not. I've presented YOU with some foundation. Now it is up to you to do your homework.

[_The Erotic Apologist]

...yet your disposition is actually one of "i know He/They does not"

You're a mind reader? You might have been reading someone else's mind, but you weren't reading mine.

By pointing out that one God contradicts another god does not negate all of them...

You're missing at least one more conclusion that can be drawn from this postulate.

...it just illuminates the notion that you do not have enough information to either disprove one, both, or all...at which case your disposition to not believe in any is the issue.

No--it's not a matter of what can bedisproved, but of what can be proved.

Quite simply, since you, here now, claim that you have no evidence to believe either way then what you are believing is simply a position of faith. You currently exercise faith that He/They does not exist.

No--not knowing whether one or all exist does not equal a belief that none of them exist.

If you are claiming that He isn't real, then yes.

No--the fact that I don't know whether He's real does not equal a belief that He isn't real. Not knowing does not equal belief.

mutually conflicting does not conclude with all three being non-existent...

I never said it did.

...the contradiction could be a result of 2 being "not real"....

Yes.

...or that you do not have enough information to make a reasonable determination....

Yes.

...i am swayed towards believing the former...

That's nice.

...but the latter remains to be seen.

That's nice, too.

which is your entitled opinion

Indeed it is, earthling.

[_The Erotic Apologist]

The ONE GOD of the Old Testament is none other than the I AM of the New Testament comprised of Father, Son and Spirit = ONE GOD.

Yes, and the Force is an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, it penetrates us, it binds the galaxy together. You must learn the ways of the Force if you are to come with me to Alderaan.

Scientology was founded on a book and it wasn't the Bible.

And Christianity was founded on a book that wasn't Dianetics. And Islam was founded on a book that wasn't the Bible. So what.

You must be willing to do your own research or you will be a victim of whatever quack/belief/trend/theory comes along --- religious or not.

No, you've given me nothing that isn't open to multiple, mutually conflicting interpretations.

I've presented YOU with some foundation. Now it is up to you to do your homework.

Again, you've given me nothing that isn't open to multiple, mutually conflicting interpretations. And yes, I have done my homework, thank you.


Nipper, how did god answer you when you asked him for guidance? A loud, booming voice? A vision? A warm, fuzzy feeling?

One more thing, Nipper--it's not nice to plagiarize other people's posts without identifying the source. Bad Nipper! Very bad Nipper! Do that again and I'll swat you with a rolled-up newspaper!

[_ludwigm]

You're saying it's up to me to prove that the ancient war god of the tribal Hebrews isn't real???

If you are claiming that He isn't real, then yes.

Then what about the Qur'an? Is it up to me to prove that the god of the Qur'an isn't real, either?

If you are claiming that He isn't real, then yes.

And what about Scientology? Is it also up to me to prove the god of Scientology isn't real?

If you are claiming that it isn't real, then yes.

Poor The Erotic Apologist...

You should prove that those gods listed below all aren't real.



Resheph Baal Anath Astarte Ashtoreth Hadad El Addu Nergal Shalem Nebo Dagon Ninib Sharrab Melek Yau Ahijah Amon-Re Isis Osiris Ptah Sebek Anubis Molech Bile Gwydion Ler Manawyddan Arianrod Nuada Argetlam Morrigu Tadg Govannon Goibniu Gundfled Odin Sokk-mimi Llaw Gyffes Memctona Lieu Dagda Ogma Kerridwen Mider Pwyll Rigantona Ogyrvan Marzin Dea Denver International Airport Mars Ceres Jupiter Vaticanus Cunina Edulia Potina Adeona Statilinus Iuno Lucina Diana of hesus Saturn Robigus Furrina Pluto Vediovis Ops Consus Meditrina Cronos Vesta Enki Tilmun Engurra Zer-panitu Belus Merodach Dimmer U-ki Mu-ul-lil Dauke Ubargisi Gasan-abzu Ubilulu Elum Gasan-lil U-TinHlir ki U-dimmer-an-kia Marduk Enurestu Nin-HMa U-sab-sib Kin U-Mersi Persophone Tammuz Istar Venus Lagas Bau U-urugal Hulu-hursang Sirtumu Anu Ea Beltis Nirig Nusku Ncbo Ni-zu Samas Sahi Ma-banba-aima Aa En-Mersi Allatu Amurm Sin Assur Abil-Addu Aku Apsu Beltu Dagan Dumu-zi-abzu Elali Kuski-banda Isum Kaawanu Mami Nin-azu Nin-mah Lugal-Amarada Zaraqu Qarradu Ura-gala Suqamunu Zagaga Ueras

See Where is the Graveyard of Dead gods?

[_The Erotic Apologist]

Poor The Erotic Apologist...

You should prove that those gods listed below all aren't real.



Resheph Baal Anath Astarte Ashtoreth Hadad El Addu Nergal Shalem Nebo Dagon Ninib Sharrab Melek Yau Ahijah Amon-Re Isis Osiris Ptah Sebek Anubis Molech Bile Gwydion Ler Manawyddan Arianrod Nuada Argetlam Morrigu Tadg Govannon Goibniu Gundfled Odin Sokk-mimi Llaw Gyffes Memctona Lieu Dagda Ogma Kerridwen Mider Pwyll Rigantona Ogyrvan Marzin Dea Denver International Airport Mars Ceres Jupiter Vaticanus Cunina Edulia Potina Adeona Statilinus Iuno Lucina Diana of hesus Saturn Robigus Furrina Pluto Vediovis Ops Consus Meditrina Cronos Vesta Enki Tilmun Engurra Zer-panitu Belus Merodach Dimmer U-ki Mu-ul-lil Dauke Ubargisi Gasan-abzu Ubilulu Elum Gasan-lil U-TinHlir ki U-dimmer-an-kia Marduk Enurestu Nin-HMa U-sab-sib Kin U-Mersi Persophone Tammuz Istar Venus Lagas Bau U-urugal Hulu-hursang Sirtumu Anu Ea Beltis Nirig Nusku Ncbo Ni-zu Samas Sahi Ma-banba-aima Aa En-Mersi Allatu Amurm Sin Assur Abil-Addu Aku Apsu Beltu Dagan Dumu-zi-abzu Elali Kuski-banda Isum Kaawanu Mami Nin-azu Nin-mah Lugal-Amarada Zaraqu Qarradu Ura-gala Suqamunu Zagaga Ueras

Yeah, this is gonna take a while. Because we have to assume they all exist until we can prove otherwise.

See Where is the Graveyard of Dead gods?

From the link: "...the Hell of dead gods is as crowded as the Presbyterian Hell for babies."

That's a good line. I'll have to remember that one.

[_LittleNipper]

Resheph Baal Anath Astarte Ashtoreth Hadad El Addu Nergal Shalem Nebo Dagon Ninib Sharrab Melek Yau Ahijah Amon-Re Isis Osiris Ptah Sebek Anubis Molech Bile Gwydion Ler Manawyddan Arianrod Nuada Argetlam Morrigu Tadg Govannon Goibniu Gundfled Odin Sokk-mimi Llaw Gyffes Memctona Lieu Dagda Ogma Kerridwen Mider Pwyll Rigantona Ogyrvan Marzin Dea Denver International Airport Mars Ceres Jupiter Vaticanus Cunina Edulia Potina Adeona Statilinus Iuno Lucina Diana of hesus Saturn Robigus Furrina Pluto Vediovis Ops Consus Meditrina Cronos Vesta Enki Tilmun Engurra Zer-panitu Belus Merodach Dimmer U-ki Mu-ul-lil Dauke Ubargisi Gasan-abzu Ubilulu Elum Gasan-lil U-TinHlir ki U-dimmer-an-kia Marduk Enurestu Nin-HMa U-sab-sib Kin U-Mersi Persophone Tammuz Istar Venus Lagas Bau U-urugal Hulu-hursang Sirtumu Anu Ea Beltis Nirig Nusku Ncbo Ni-zu Samas Sahi Ma-banba-aima Aa En-Mersi Allatu Amurm Sin Assur Abil-Addu Aku Apsu Beltu Dagan Dumu-zi-abzu Elali Kuski-banda Isum Kaawanu Mami Nin-azu Nin-mah Lugal-Amarada Zaraqu Qarradu Ura-gala Suqamunu Zagaga Ueras

See Where is the Graveyard of Dead gods?

None of them ever did anything for me. Why should I consider them now? As for you, you do not regard any Creator God. Jesus Christ the LORD of the Bible has been very good to me. None of those other gods died just for me or wanted to be my friend. I've been protected by God and he answers my prayers. I do not fear death with the Good Shepherd to see me through to the other side (unlike some who even expected one to bring his own change to be carried across the River Styx). And yet everyone knows that you cannot take it with you! I have to prove nothing to myself, and as a Witness for God, I do not have to prove anything to you. My job is to tell the Gospel message and if you reject it, it is on your own head.

[Guest]

Jesus Christ the LORD of the Bible has been very good to me. None of those other gods died just for me or wanted to be my friend. I've been protected by God and he answers my prayers. I do not fear death with the Good Shepherd to see me through to the other side (unlike some who even expected one to bring his own change to be carried across the River Styx). And yet everyone knows that you cannot take it with you! I have to prove nothing to myself, and as a Witness for God, I do not have to prove anything to you. My job is to tell the Gospel message and if you reject it, it is on your own head.

That all sounds really nice, but unfortunately you're the same person who also thinks it's cool to threaten Jews with murder if they don't accept Jesus. That undermines your credibility.

None of them (the other gods) ever did anything for me.

[_The Erotic Apologist]

The fact that we've eaten last sunday milánói sertésborda (= milanese pork reef) is proof of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Even my TBM wife (right after three hours of procrustination ***) has eaten this:

Darn it! That's one more god I have to prove doesn't exist!

You're not helping, Ludwig!!!