Book of Mormon Original Manuscript

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Kukulkan
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Re: I prophecy that pleasure parties shall come from England

Post by Kukulkan »

Shulem wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 1:28 am
Another version of Smith’s prophecy of Section 124 failed, or in another words, it did not happen as promised.

Joseph Smith, Discourse, Nauvoo, Hancock Co., IL wrote: Joseph Smith Papers
Discourse, circa 19 July 1840, as Reported by Martha Jane Knowlton Coray–B


. . . . A few Item from a discourse delivered by Joseph Smith July 19— 1840

. . . . Then shall the Lord say Go tell all my servants who are the strength of mine house my young men and middle aged &c Come to the Land of my vineyard and fight the battle of the Lord— Then the Kings & Queens shall come then the rulers of the Earth shall come then shall all saints come yea the Foreign saints shall come to fight for the Land of my vineyard for in this thing Shall be their safety and they will have no power to choose but will come as a man fleeth from a sudden destruction.

. . . . For Zion and Jerusalem and must both be built up before the coming of Christ This will near a half of a century How long will it take to do this 10 years yes more than 40 years will pass before this work will be accomplished and when these cities are built then shall the coming of the son of man be.

. . . . And I prophecy in the name of the Lord that the state of Illinois shall become a great mountain and mighty mountain as city set upon a hill that cannot be hid and a great that giveth light to the world and The city of Nauvoo also shall become the Greatest city in the whole world—

. . . . Then shall the poor be fed by the curious who shall come from all parts of the world to see this wonderful temple Yea I prophecy that pleasure parties shall come from England to see the Mamoth and like the Queen of Sheba shall say the half never was told them. School houses shall be built here and High schools shall be established and the great men of the shall send their sons here to board while they are receiving their education among us and even Noblemen shall crave the priviledge of educating their children with us and these poor saints shall chink in their pockets the money of these proud men received from such as come and dwell with us.

. . . . Now brethren I obligate myself to build as great a temple as ever solomon did if the church will back me up. moreover it shall not impoverish any man but enrich thousands and I prophecy that the time shall be when these saints shall ride proudly over the mountains of Missouri and no Gentile dog nor Missouri dog Shall dare lift a tongue against them but will lick up the dust from beneath their feet will of God that I might live to behold that temple completed and finished from the foundation to the top stone.

Incredible!!

Joseph Smith related the idea of royalty coming to visit him in Nauvoo even as the the Queen of Sheba visited Solomon at his temple in Jerusalem. This is Smith’s delusion of grandeur.

IT WILL NOT HAPPEN! IT DID NOT HAPPEN!
I knew that Joseph Smith had an ego but wow. Just wow...
"I advise all to go on to perfection and search deeper and deeper into the mysteries of Godliness." -Joseph Smith
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Shulem
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Re: Book of Mormon Original Manuscript

Post by Shulem »

Kukulkan wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 2:35 am
I knew that Joseph Smith had an ego but wow. Just wow...

And here is another golden nugget from the President of the Church who just so happened to be the chief editor of the Times and Seasons:

TIMES AND SEASONS, October 1842 wrote:Such a statement of facts will be considered the simple truth, when it is remembered that we are the only people upon the earth who profess to be governed and guided by direct revelation from the Lord: And in this place let us not forget to mention that important commandment which said: “And again, inasmuch as there is land obtained, let there be workmen sent forth, of all kinds, unto this land, to labor for the saints of God.” Now who that has witnessed the driving of the saints from place to place, and seen them in the short space of two or three years, raise a town or a city, glowing with all the arts, improvements, and curious workmen found any where upon the earth, can doubt this revelation? One thing is certain, the elders must possess more plausibility, discernment and ingenuity, to find out wise and skilful workmen, than had ever been the lot of the world, or else the revelation is true,—and these elders are blessed with the spirit of God, to assist in bringing to pass his act, his strange act. This light is not under a bushel.

Two steam mills have been put into operation this season, and many other buildings for mechanical labor in the various branches of manufacture, are either under way or in contemplation,— while the Temple of God, a work of great magnitude, and the Nauvoo House, which when finished will hardly be surpassed in the western world, are rising up as monuments of the enterprise, industry and reverence of the commandments of God, of the saints in their banishment from Missouri.

Unfortunately for Joseph Smith, I’m afraid that the “revelation” and “Spirit of God” that led him to believe that the “commandment” to build the Nauvoo House would be “FINSIHED” was untrue. It makes one wonder that if something so important and grand being revealed by the Spirit is not true, how many other things did Smith say that were untrue?
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Kukulkan
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Re: Book of Mormon Original Manuscript

Post by Kukulkan »

Shulem wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 5:29 pm
Kukulkan wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 2:35 am
I knew that Joseph Smith had an ego but wow. Just wow...

And here is another golden nugget from the President of the Church who just so happened to be the chief editor of the Times and Seasons:


TIMES AND SEASONS, October 1842 wrote:Such a statement of facts will be considered the simple truth, when it is remembered that we are the only people upon the earth who profess to be governed and guided by direct revelation from the Lord: And in this place let us not forget to mention that important commandment which said: “And again, inasmuch as there is land obtained, let there be workmen sent forth, of all kinds, unto this land, to labor for the saints of God.” Now who that has witnessed the driving of the saints from place to place, and seen them in the short space of two or three years, raise a town or a city, glowing with all the arts, improvements, and curious workmen found any where upon the earth, can doubt this revelation? One thing is certain, the elders must possess more plausibility, discernment and ingenuity, to find out wise and skilful workmen, than had ever been the lot of the world, or else the revelation is true,—and these elders are blessed with the spirit of God, to assist in bringing to pass his act, his strange act. This light is not under a bushel.

Two steam mills have been put into operation this season, and many other buildings for mechanical labor in the various branches of manufacture, are either under way or in contemplation,— while the Temple of God, a work of great magnitude, and the Nauvoo House, which when finished will hardly be surpassed in the western world, are rising up as monuments of the enterprise, industry and reverence of the commandments of God, of the saints in their banishment from Missouri.

Unfortunately for Joseph Smith, I’m afraid that the “revelation” and “Spirit of God” that led him to believe that the “commandment” to build the Nauvoo House would be “FINSIHED” was untrue. It makes one wonder that if something so important and grand being revealed by the Spirit is not true, how many other things did Smith say that were untrue?
It's funny because we often associate modern Mormons with living in a 'bubble' but it seems that bubble was well and alive even in the times of Joseph Smith. How naive he was.
"I advise all to go on to perfection and search deeper and deeper into the mysteries of Godliness." -Joseph Smith
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Shulem
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Something to think about

Post by Shulem »

Given everything that has been expressed in the historical context of this thread thus far, which of the following statements do you think best describes Joseph Smith’s attitude and thinking concerning the placement of the Original Manuscript into the cornerstone of the Nauvoo House from a faithful Latter-day Saint point of view?

1) Smith probably had mixed feelings about getting rid of the manuscript when prayerfully placing it in nature’s rock but he felt assured by the Spirit of God that divine providence would preserve the record and keep it intact.

2) Smith was probably somewhat hesitant about getting rid of the manuscript by placing it into a crevice of nature not being entirely sure whether God would preserve the manuscript within the sealed compartment into which it was placed by the prayers of the First Presidency of the Church.

3) Smith was probably glad to get rid of the manuscript and the burdens that came with keeping it in his private possession and was therefore anxious to place it into the hands of nature’s rock and entrust Almighty God to preserve the record.
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Shulem
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Re: Book of Mormon Original Manuscript

Post by Shulem »

Deseret News wrote:
To be fair, he was trying to preserve the manuscript, said Robin Jensen, a volume co-editor and historian with the Joseph Smith Papers.

“Now if I had a time machine, I would go back and say, ‘Let’s not do this,’” Jensen said with a smile.

Yes, Joseph was “trying” to preserve the manuscript but failed miserably in making that attempt. It was the worst thing he could have done to the manuscript. If it had remained safely in Church hands it would have crossed the plains with the rest of the precious handwritten documents of Church history. But we see that Joseph Smith the SEER lacked vision and that the Lord in whom he claimed to receive his vision was blind too. The blind leading the blind!

Jensen says he would tell Joseph not to do that. I wonder what else Jensen might tell Smith not to do. Perhaps not marry other men’s wives or 14 year old girls? How about not print the Explanations of Facsimile No. 3 in an upcoming edition of the Times and Seasons? What about poor Anubis’s nose that Hedlock scraped off the original printer’s lead plate? Would Jensen had told Smith not to do that?

The list of things Jensen could tell Smith not to do are quite long and very telling. Maybe Jensen would make a better Church President than Smith. At least he knows how to properly preserve sacred documents.
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Re: Book of Mormon Original Manuscript

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Deseret News wrote:
The original manuscript is only one step removed from golden plates and Joseph’s divine translation experience, Jensen said.

Not quite, Robin. Have you forgotten about the lost 116 pages that would have told the story of Lehi crossing the ocean on a ship? That original work was lost and Smith couldn’t retranslate it because he simply couldn’t remember everything he said to Harris in that account and those who had the manuscript could show the discrepancies. For example, Lehi’s voyage in the account dictated to Cowdery neglects to give the number of days they spent at sea. Why? Because Smith couldn’t remember what he had originally said in the first account he dictated to Harris.

So, the first account given to Harris is closest to the original because it is the original which we will never know. I discuss this in a thread down in the Terrestrial Forum (Rated PG):

Fake Book of Mormon Geography -- holes in the script
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Re: Book of Mormon Original Manuscript

Post by CarolineLloyd »

Informative history nice post
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Re: Book of Mormon Original Manuscript

Post by Moksha »

Shulem wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:29 pm
The list of things Jensen could tell Smith not to do are quite long and very telling.
Shulem, would you have advised Joseph to finish off translating the Kinderhook plates and sending the manuscript for the new book off to the publisher before making any trips to Carthage? Wonder if General Zelph would have rated a chapter in the book?
Shulem wrote:Why? Because Smith couldn’t remember what he had originally said in the first account he dictated to Harris.
It would have been comforting to read, "We came ashore on a beautiful Delmarva beach."
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Re: I prophecy that pleasure parties shall come from England

Post by Philo Sofee »

Kukulkan wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 2:35 am
Shulem wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 1:28 am
Another version of Smith’s prophecy of Section 124 failed, or in another words, it did not happen as promised.





Incredible!!

Joseph Smith related the idea of royalty coming to visit him in Nauvoo even as the the Queen of Sheba visited Solomon at his temple in Jerusalem. This is Smith’s delusion of grandeur.

IT WILL NOT HAPPEN! IT DID NOT HAPPEN!
I knew that Joseph Smith had an ego but wow. Just wow...
Well, the Joseph Smith Papers demonstrate just before he died, Joseph, Brigham and John (Taylor) all anointed themselves Kings of the world, LITERALLY...KINGS! I guess since no one paid attention to them and came and licked their feet, like they imagined they all ought to, they might as well just become Kings themselves...
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